Session Start: Thu Apr 27 00:00:00 2006
Session Ident: #unixhelp
[00:02] <PopeyeOil> what command line syntax would I use to get a list of all the files on a
[00:09] <pbug> popaye: find / -type f -ctime -24 -print
[00:09] <pbug> where the 24 means 24 hours before now
[00:09] <pbug> you have to count back from now
[00:12] <PopeyeOil> pbug - thanks so -ctime does hours or days?
[00:12] <pbug> hours
[00:12] <PopeyeOil> So what would I add if I just wanted .html files - and does it only searc
[00:12] <pbug> oh no 24-hours
[00:13] <pbug> that's one day
[00:13] <pbug> so 24 is really 24 days
[00:13] <pbug> dunno how I got that confused.. odd
[00:13] <PopeyeOil> So I should put -ctime -1 then correct?
[00:14] <pbug> if you want changes since yesterday yes
[00:14] <pbug> -ctime n
[00:14] <pbug> True if the difference between the time of last change of file
[00:14] <pbug> status information and the time find was started, rounded up to
[00:14] <pbug> the next full 24-hour period, is n 24-hour periods.
[00:16] <pbug> how there is a -cnewer <file> option but there is no easy way to make th
[00:16] <pbug> one can prepare time files regardless though by crontab, every day write/touch
[00:16] <PopeyeOil> find / *.html -type f -ctime -1 -print Would that be right to find all h
[00:17] <pbug> find / -name "*.html" -type f -ctime -1 -print
[00:17] <pbug> I think
[00:18] <pbug> bash-3.1$ touch blah.txt
[00:18] <pbug> bash-3.1$ find . -name "*.txt" -ctime -1 -type f -print
[00:18] <pbug> ./blah.txt
[00:18] <pbug> works for me
[00:20] <PopeyeOil> pbug - that works perfect - thanks!
[00:39] <lizsac> yeah
[00:39] <lizsac> hahah
[00:39] <lizsac> hey
[00:39] <lizsac> pbug
[00:42] <pbug> hi lizzy, thought you were off to choppin' wood
[00:48] <pbug> whoi I woke up tired today.. that's not a good sign
[00:48] * pbug yawns..
[00:49] <pbug> think I'll crawl back to bed for a bit until the garbage collectors come aroun
[00:50] <pbug> take a little snooze
[01:05] <lizsac> now
[01:05] <lizsac> fuck
[01:06] <lizsac> i didn't get to tell you a story tonight
[01:06] <lizsac> sorry jr
[01:07] <lizsac> so i convinced my buddy to buy a chainsaw
[01:07] <lizsac> i'm online now looking for a modded out gas hog
[01:07] <lizsac> tomorrow i'm going to be getting sloppy seconds like a champion
[01:08] <lizsac> like a gladiator
[01:08] <lizsac> they totally clear cut this whole bottom of a mountain range
[01:09] <lizsac> sad
[01:09] <lizsac> but lots of wood left still
[01:09] <lizsac> the locals are out scavenging for the winter
[01:10] <lizsac> good to get your wood now so it's nice and dry via summer
[01:11] <lizsac> so we've got this flatbed willys jeep and 2 good chainsaws
[01:11] <lizsac> well tomorrow we will have 2 good ones
[01:11] <lizsac> the one he has is good but it's too small to be effecient
[01:12] <lizsac> it's mainly for limbs
[01:19] <arno> hah
[01:33] <Tamsie> I'm getting frustrated with figuring out libgcrypt
[02:00] <Tamsie> if we cant access the child class info through inheritence -- how will using
[02:39] <pbug> re
[02:45] <arno> oi
[03:02] <pbug> well I'm gonna see if I can get this SATA drive working again..
[03:10] * felixdaho is now known as felixhcat
[03:17] <pbug> nope that SATA drive is dead, jim
[03:17] <pbug> you put a power supply to it it keeps going thump thump thump
[03:17] <pbug> almost like the arm wants to park but is stuck somewhere
[03:18] <pbug> I hate moving parts
[03:18] <pbug> I wonder if it's on warranty I'll have to check that out...
[03:20] <pbug> I remember when it broke.. I booted an old old old freebsd, perhaps 2.2.8-REL
[03:20] <eple> maybe flash drives will one day replace hard drives
[03:20] <eple> no moving parts to worry about :)
[03:20] <pbug> yeah
[03:21] <pbug> on my laptop I'm already using a 512M USB key as my primary harddrive
[03:21] <pbug> I'm going to have to get a 1 giger though because OpenBSD since 3.9 has increa
[03:21] <eple> samsung came out w/ 33gb flash drive in laptop at cebit
[03:22] <pbug> probably pretty expensive
[03:22] <eple> yea ~$950 for the drive only
[03:25] <pbug> I should pick up a flyer with costs on them next time I'm near the computer st
[03:25] <pbug> kinda interested what a usb key 1 gig would cost
[03:26] <pbug> my grandmother gave me 50 euros for my birthday, some of that can go towards i
[03:28] <pbug> with 3.9 on the laptop the soundcard works under ther tumbler(4) driver, then
[03:29] <pbug> play music when I'm riding the train, while reading manpages or source or what
[03:31] <eple> i think newegg had nice deal on pny 2gb drive for less than $50
[03:31] <eple> if they ship to where ever you are
[03:32] <pbug> ahh yeh, I try to avoid ordering over online, I don't have a CC for one, it's
[03:32] <pbug> when I need something I can't get out of a store here I ask my dad who has a C
[03:32] <pbug> usually he does it since it's nothing big, just a book or something and it's n
[03:33] <pbug> in the last 3 years I've asked him to get me 3 books from online..
[03:34] <pbug> it's really hard to get north american books here in .de, the book stores won'
[03:35] <pbug> I mean for a 5 storey book store right in the heart of frankfurt you'd think t
[03:37] <pbug> it's all about information/book cartels, if the book isn't supplied by the car
[03:49] <pbug> you know how they can't spin a CDROM faster than 60X?
[03:50] <pbug> why don't they have 2 motors, one spinning the CD at 40X and the other spinnin
[03:56] <pbug> also because the spin will require a counterweight of sorts on the laser put a
[04:07] <spuug> It would be much harder to stop a laser assembly from vibrating if it's spinn
[04:07] <pbug> yeah that's true
[04:08] <pbug> yet, the us military mounts laser and nightvision on top of the rotor of a hel
[04:08] <spuug> But it does sound like a good idea.
[04:08] <pbug> so the technology is there
[04:42] <pbug> * Copyright (c) 2000 Network Security Technologies, Inc. http://www.netsec.net
[04:42] <pbug> these guys don't exist anymore it seems
[04:42] <pbug> when I go to the web address it gives me verizon business website or something
[05:28] <pbug> * OpenCVS: work keeps going, now with the help of cloudy weather in
[05:28] <pbug> the Caribbean!
[05:28] <pbug> hehe
[05:28] <pbug> nice new changes for 3.9
[05:29] <pbug> do you guys realise that openbsd will reach 4.0 in December?
[05:29] <pbug> the dirty thirties are over, then start the murderours 40's
[05:36] <belter> ie 4.0 was a nightmare, freebsd 5.x was quickly pushed aside
[05:50] <pbug> 5 years of murderous 40's
[05:51] <pbug> although if it's like the wars in 1940's it'll settle around 4.5
[05:51] <pbug> so if openbsd is still around in 2010, things are gonna be pretty cool
[05:52] <pbug> perhaps by then there will be a OpenBSD/siemensquantumpc port :P
[05:55] <pbug> good thing I didn't go on my bike trip this week after all, it rained steadily
[05:55] <pbug> I woulda had a pissy time
[06:59] <pbug> ahh neat my computer supposedly has 5 year warranty.. I think I'll take the ha
[06:59] <pbug> maybe they'll give me a new one
[07:09] <Mouring> It's more like.. "pbug who? what computer? I'm sorry we have no record of
[07:12] <pbug> they'll just push me through a secret door to the building beside them which i
[07:13] <pbug> or.. they'll happily give me a replacement and instead of a samsung drive I'll
[07:14] <kneer0w> -_-
[07:20] <Mouring> much better.. had to redo my contacts for my address book.. I had pushed al
[07:21] <pbug> they are well known terrorists in reality..
[07:22] <pbug> osamas satellite phone number spread on the internet a while ago, I'm sure one
[07:24] <pbug> would sorta suck if the cellphone accidentally dialed it though..
[07:25] <pbug> before you know it you'll be hauled back to your old place of work, instead th
[07:26] * Dmi plugs pbug into the cellphone
[07:27] <pbug> what can I say.. I make a good plug-in
[07:27] * Dmi plugs pbug into Battosai's rear end.
[07:28] <pbug> just like a nat on a monkeys tail..
[07:32] <pbug> man do I ever have a craving of smoking a joint all of a sudden... that hasn't
[07:34] <pbug> problaby because it's raining outside.. smoking some mj blends nicely with the
[07:35] <pbug> the other reason being that I'm listening to jazz on the radio.. that could be
[07:40] * pbug dreams of a nice slick joint, and rain falling on this quiet thursday afternoon, and
[07:41] <pbug> think I'll make some tea now..
[07:43] * kneer0w slaps pbug around a bit with a large trout
[07:44] <pbug> hehe I just noticed this.. guy across the street is growing 2 plants :P
[07:44] <pbug> just baby ones now.. no more than 5 cm high
[07:44] <kneer0w> :I
[07:44] <pbug> I should really start planting my own tomatoes
[07:48] <Mouring> hmm... with a break to a new job I have a chance to change habbits..Questio
[07:49] <pbug> mouring: you mean no more pee samples to test for drug use? you can smoke up
[07:50] <pbug> become a hippy programmer :P
[07:50] <pbug> grow yer hair long
[07:50] <Mouring> pbug, it is already mid-bak lenght.
[07:50] <Mouring> I don't care to have it any longer.
[07:53] <pbug> what other habits would you want to change?
[07:54] <Mouring> I'm up 15 to 20 minutes before I go to work.
[07:55] <Mouring> With the fact I may be carpooling I may have to be in a better mood (I hate
[07:55] <evils0n> http://helpmegetsex.blogspot.com/
[07:55] <pbug> heh
[07:58] <pbug> carla is a man
[07:59] <arcsine> :o
[07:59] <Mouring> If I invested no more money into my retirement at the age of 67 I'd be livi
[07:59] <arcsine> who cares, if it looks like that :p
[08:01] <fugi> Mouring: pff, like you'll live that long..
[08:02] <Mouring> I don't expect to live past 50.
[08:02] <fugi> spend some of that retirement fund on alcohol and you won't have to worry abou
[08:02] <fugi> more money! w00t
[08:03] <Mouring> fugi, I have almost enough in my retirement right now to take a year off fr
[08:03] <pbug> well if you knew the true meaning of life you wouldn't save up much money..
[08:04] <Mouring> in fact it would be a bit loger than a year since I wouldn't be paying into
[08:04] <pbug> money is just a number intended to make you depressed
[08:04] <Mouring> pbug, na.. this is all matched money.. So it doesn't make me depressed.. ad
[08:04] <fugi> I'm not going to put into a 401k
[08:05] <fugi> I plan on working my entire life
[08:05] <Mouring> besides.. this is 401k.. I wouldn't even be looking at this except I'm movi
[08:05] <fugi> else, I'd have nothing to do with my time, I'd rot away
[08:05] <pbug> I shoulda recorded this radio now..they started the reggae program and are pla
[08:05] <pbug> too late now..
[08:05] <Mouring> fugi, 401k has other useful things. Like quick cash if you need a loan to
[08:06] <fugi> meh
[08:06] <fugi> I can take one out against the house in a jam
[08:06] <Mouring> besides.. if I die before using it my will is set to give it to a good grou
[08:06] <fugi> like fugi?
[08:06] <fugi> I'm a non-profit group
[08:06] <Mouring> fugi, assuming the bank thinks you have equality =-)
[08:06] <fugi> I do indeed
[08:06] <Mouring> No like "Hoofless Foundation" ..
[08:07] <pbug> give it all to your government, uncle sam, people will appreciate it
[08:07] <fugi> my fucking taxes went up this year on it
[08:07] <fugi> tax appraised value went up $10k
[08:07] <Mouring> Where they study why non-hoofed creatures are always unhappy, and how to do
[08:07] <fugi> I want hooves
[08:07] <fugi> HOOOOVES!
[08:09] <fugi> I'm about to throw $500 into purely bureaucratic paperwork for my new venture
[08:09] <pbug> 401k isn't enough to pack rockets on an airliner and fly it into a building un
[08:09] <fugi> fucking retarded.
[08:09] <fugi> pbug: what?
[08:10] <pbug> well if you wanna go out with a bang after your retirement :P
[08:10] <fugi> heh.
[08:11] <pbug> a little cessna would be available though
[08:11] * fugi throws sourkraut at pbug
[08:11] <pbug> but not sure if it can carry many rockets
[08:11] <Mouring> it's cheapter just to strap t&t to your body and run into a federal buildin
[08:12] <pbug> cuz i'm t&t...
[08:12] <pbug> that's a song by ac/dc right?
[08:12] <fugi> sure
[08:12] <fugi> and it's TNT
[08:12] * Mouring shrugs.. don't listen to devil music much.
[08:12] <pbug> ac/dc is hardly devil music
[08:13] <pbug> it's god music in hell
[08:13] <fugi> TriNitroToluine
[08:13] <fugi> *toluene
[08:15] <Mouring> bah... I was suggesting T-Bone & Tenderloin bomb.
[08:15] <Mouring> geesh people get with the new technology.
[08:15] <fugi> of course.
[08:17] <pbug> anyhow I've analyzed why I like listening to reggae music, since music is ente
[08:17] * SvX_ is now known as SvX
[08:17] <fugi> pbug: silence.
[08:17] <fugi> infidel
[08:18] <fugi> phusniken HAI!
[08:18] <fugi> <3
[08:22] <pbug> oh man what a waste, I really really should be recording this..
[08:22] <pbug> lots of instrumentals
[08:22] <pbug> I coulda made my own lyrics to this..
[08:23] <fugi> or you could stop being a fuckin weirdo
[08:23] <pbug> it's the tea I made 40 minutes ago
[08:24] <fugi> special tea?
[08:24] * pbug gets another cup..
[08:24] <pbug> this is the "special gunpowder green tea" from china
[08:24] <pbug> with a spoon of sugar
[08:25] <pbug> I ran out of the other tea I drink, black tea
[08:26] <fugi> gunpowder green tea?
[08:26] <pbug> yeah that's what the case said, it came in a cube 10cm by 10cm roughly
[08:26] <pbug> picked it up in the maroccan store near the central train station
[08:27] <Mr_You> man sco unixware sucks balls
[08:27] <fugi> I see
[08:27] <pbug> the reason it's called gunpowder tea is because it smells like gunpowder
[08:27] <pbug> but it doesn't burn.. I tried..
[08:27] <fugi> Mr_You: wow, welcome to the 21st century.
[08:28] <fugi> smells like it?
[08:28] <fugi> you even know what gunpowder smells like?
[08:28] <pbug> yeah my uncle has guns
[08:28] <fugi> does not
[08:28] <pbug> heh
[08:28] <pbug> he's a hunter
[08:28] <fugi> is not
[08:28] <Mouring> pbug, I assume you mean fired gunpowder.
[08:29] <fugi> Mouring: unfired has a smell too
[08:29] <Mouring> everything has a fucking smell.
[08:29] <fugi> it's a very discinct smell, just as fired is
[08:32] <pbug> well, actually yeah.. the smell reminds me of fired gunpowder.. kinda like she
[08:32] <at> hmm
[08:32] <at> never heard of this tea
[08:32] <Mouring> It's a German secret..
[08:33] <Mouring> They use to mix used gunpowder into their tea to improve their sex life.
[08:33] <at> http://www.fmltea.com/tea/Gunpowder-tea.htm
[08:33] <at> lol
[08:33] <pbug> I kept the packaging here... "grand temple, green china tea "special gunpowder
[08:34] <at> fuckin belgians - they copy everything
[08:37] <Yashy> http://www.thebeerbelly.com/
[08:38] <pbug> heh
[08:38] <at> yea i saw that on cnn this morning
[08:38] <pbug> let's hope it doesn't get lost in the navel hole
[08:38] <pbug> beer bellies are just shields
[08:39] <pbug> you can feel comforted by the thought that wherever you walk a layer of fat is
[08:41] <revstray> anyone see Lord of War? where the guy does a line of cocaine w/ gun powder
[08:41] <revstray> special gunpowder green tea reminded me...
[08:42] <pbug> heh don't think I've seen that.. I usually pick up sweet titles when renting d
[08:43] <pbug> I like watching romances and stuff.. last I picked out a dvd called "the 40 ye
[08:43] <pbug> it was pretty funny
[08:44] <pbug> in the movies they did say behind his back "he's probably a violent mass murde
[08:47] <pbug> anyhow the movie ends with him getting laid..
[08:47] <pbug> and they made it look like he's on drugs
[08:49] <Yashy> ./kick Mary22
[08:49] <pbug> bloody mary
[08:49] <pbug> ./kick * mary22 march 20th is the vernal equinox
[08:49] <pbug> after that a woman named Serena28 would come on
[08:50] <pbug> and then you could kick her with "september 23rd is the autumnal equinox"
[08:50] <revstray> heh
[08:51] <StoneWork> Hi =]
[08:51] <StoneWork> Wierd situation. New Solaris 10 install on a Sunblade 1500. For some re
[08:52] <revstray> pbug: I'd highly recommend "Lord of War", the main character is a warlord
[08:53] <pbug> hrmm
[08:54] <belter> to bad he didn't explain how that works with to the wife
[08:54] <revstray> the movie pushes a lot of boundaries of guns in movies
[08:55] <Figz> moreso than the crow?
[08:55] <Mouring> stone, what is your remote login method?
[08:55] <Yashy> I watched the opening segment of Lord of War.. it's worth watching alone. I h
[08:57] <phusnikn> is that a new movie ?
[08:57] <Yashy> Nichlos Cage
[08:57] <Yashy> relatively new
[08:58] <Yashy> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0399295/
[08:58] <pbug> I'd be interesting in a military/spy movie where people are cloaked like the a
[08:58] <fugi> pbug: make no mistake, you are.
[08:59] <pbug> fugi: yeah and ghosts exist too :P
[09:00] <pbug> wikipedia had an interesting article yesterday regarding samuel boothe the guy
[09:00] <pbug> some people claim after he assassinated lincoln, boothe turned into a vampire
[09:00] <pbug> and lives to this day
[09:00] <StoneWork> Mourning, from the main login screen just selecting remote login. Gives
[09:00] <pbug> well.. in wikipedia they can write all sorts of shit :P
[09:03] <Mr_You> thats in wikipedia? weird.
[09:03] <pbug> yeah
[09:03] <Mr_You> guess they want to present all points of view, even looney ones hehe
[09:03] <pbug> look up boothe, at the end there is a quotation of someone mentioning a book c
[09:04] <pbug> another interesting thing is the body of boothe after he was shot, was first b
[09:04] <pbug> why would a government bury a casket inside a prison cell?
[09:04] <pbug> unless they expect the dead body to come alive after death..
[09:05] <Mr_You> I imagine there is more to it than that.
[09:06] <pbug> anyhow, after 20 years or so they exhumed the body and it was taken by boothe'
[09:06] * Mr_You doesn't care.
[09:06] <pbug> well this happened 200 years ago.. so you don't have to care really...
[09:07] <pbug> life goes on, the story of yester-century get repeated today, we live it all o
[09:08] <pbug> thx, now I can kick femalenick<integer> when they come around :P
[09:13] <stdio> has anyone researched impact of rndc reload on DNS queries being performed at
[09:14] <stdio> i'm trying to speed up DNS changes. right now i reload my primary DNS every 6
[09:14] <tchang> the service is unavailable for however long it takes to reload
[09:14] <stdio> are you sure? i thought reload is graceful
[09:14] <pbug> doesn't matter anyhow...
[09:14] <stdio> ?
[09:15] <pbug> either way the query will be repeated after some time
[09:15] <pbug> DNS is redundant
[09:15] <stdio> yes but at the moment, the clients will be stuck without IP
[09:15] <stdio> unless they query secondary DNS, i guess, hmmm
[09:15] <pbug> afaik a nameserver will sometimes look up all DNS servers listed for a zone an
[09:16] <stdio> how do major DNS services implement instant changes? do they use something ot
[09:16] <stdio> like those DNS services hosting DNS for hundred of thousands of domains
[09:16] <stdio> surely reloading bind every minute with so many zones is not ideal
[09:16] <tchang> you can reload a given domain
[09:16] <tchang> instead of all
[09:18] <roycroft> most larger providers batch their changes
[09:20] <stdio> roycroft: but do they use bind?
[09:22] <roycroft> yes
[09:23] <roycroft> at least some of them do
[09:23] <roycroft> paul vixie runs multiple root nameservers that run bind
[09:25] <pbug> hrmm why the hell is my ibook charging..
[09:26] <roycroft> although the root nameservers don't do that many changes
[09:26] <roycroft> it's the top-level domain nameservers that get seriously hammered with upd
[09:26] <pbug> times are weird, I think I need to teach my computers again to dump to a shell
[09:27] <roycroft> but they definitely batch their reloads - that's why a new domain registra
[09:27] <pbug> oh it's ~! :P
[09:28] <pbug> well no harm done, if I had ddb break set up I woulda seen what in ddb prompt
[09:42] <Mouring> eh... I found a bug in my website.
[09:44] <pbug> cool
[09:44] <pbug> all bugs DDT!
[09:45] <wettoast> in a dnz zone file, should you put in IN NS ns.blah.com for each slave ser
[09:45] <wettoast> err, dns
[09:45] <pbug> wettoast: yeah can't hurt
[09:47] <wettoast> sure it could, thats why im asking
[09:48] <roycroft> you list the registered nameservers
[09:48] <roycroft> if you run private slave servers you don't list them
[10:01] <Nakhle> hello , i wanted to ask how i can manipulate the temp. value that allows the
[10:07] <Nakhle> can one do 3d graphics in C?
[10:08] <Mr_You> Nakhle: I believe thats set in the BIOS.
[10:08] <e^lnx> thers someting im uncertain of, I was wondering if it is the "daemons" or th
[10:15] <Mouring> no not just anyone can do graphics in C.
[10:15] <stdio> rndc reload test1.com
[10:15] <stdio> rndc: 'reload' failed: not found
[10:15] <Nakhle> Mouring, ever done it?
[10:16] <stdio> what am i doing wrong? help shows reload zone [class [view]]
[10:21] <pbug> stdio: perhaps it implies the zone wasn't found, not reload
[10:22] <stdio> hmm how do i specify the zone? a path to the zone file?
[10:22] <stdio> i think you might be right
[10:23] <pbug> if it's a brandnew zone then named may not know about it
[10:23] <stdio> it is brand new zone, it's in named.conf
[10:24] <stdio> i have to reload entire named?
[10:24] <teclo> evening, or something
[10:24] <pbug> it's worth tracing the named for educational purposes, when you send it a relo
[10:25] <Nakhle> Mouring, everything I could do in C I could do in bash
[10:25] <Nakhle> Mouring, and thats killing me. Maybe I should just drop C :/ heh
[10:26] <pbug> nakhle: I once got a second-hand book on 3d libraries for X11, I believe it wa
[10:26] <pbug> they were a bunch of libraries in C
[10:26] <Nakhle> I'm talking genereally
[10:26] <Nakhle> generally
[10:26] <pbug> they are used in medicine sector for 3d stuff for stuff like cat scan/mri scan
[10:29] <Mouring> nakhle, please write me a ssh implemetatio in bash..
[10:29] <Mouring> I'd love to see that.
[10:29] <Mouring> In just bash.. no external commads.
[10:30] <Mouring> must be portable accross every platform.
[10:31] <Nakhle> I need to use an external command (nc) because my bash is not compiled with
[10:31] <Nakhle> but I may also need sed and such
[10:31] <Nakhle> and it can be done with openssl
[10:32] <Nakhle> it's doable.
[10:32] <Mouring> doubtful.
[10:34] <Nakhle> everything is possible
[10:34] <Nakhle> bash is full of surprises
[10:34] <Mouring> Not really.. There are limits to reality.
[10:37] <Nakhle> heh
[10:37] <Nakhle> Mouring, trust me, I know I can't do everything I can do in C in bash, but I
[10:37] <Nakhle> after all bash is written in C
[10:37] <Nakhle> :)
[10:37] <Mouring> nor can you get the performance.
[10:38] <Nakhle> Thats true
[10:38] <Nakhle> but in C you gotta define every little thing, in bash you can easily write a
[10:39] <Nakhle> and that's what I don't like, although it's an advantage in a way
[10:39] <Mouring> strict variable control is required to ensure you don't have bugs.
[10:40] <Nakhle> what bugs?
[10:41] <Nakhle> why must you first declare a variable?
[10:41] <Nakhle> instead of just using it right away?
[10:42] <Mouring> because people tend to reuse variable names and without good scoping and st
[10:43] <Nakhle> how do I print the contents of a variable in C?
[10:43] <Nakhle> why can't it be printf(var)
[10:44] <Mouring> plus you have typing issues to consider.. how do you know when you do var="
[10:44] <Mouring> printf("%s", var); (if string)
[10:44] <Mouring> pritf("%d", var"; (if int)
[10:44] <Mouring> erm.. printf
[10:44] <Nakhle> Well, I know because I assigned it in the first place :p;
[10:45] <Mouring> Not all variables are in your control.
[10:45] <Nakhle> I think its suppose to be a bracket
[10:45] <Nakhle> theres no " near the var
[10:45] <Mouring> you're thinking near-sighted.
[10:46] <Nakhle> all variables are in my control, i control the variables and the functions t
[10:46] <Nakhle> I should know what it's doing in first place
[10:47] <phusnikn> Nakhle printf is a format specifier
[10:47] <phusnikn> thats why
[10:47] <Nakhle> oh ok, that makes sence. sorry
[10:48] <Mouring> nakhle, spend some time debugging 300,000 lines of perl code written by 50
[10:48] <Mouring> I've found more cases where a second programmer reused a variable without k
[10:49] <Mouring> Get in the habbit of writing good code, documented code, and SCOPED code.
[10:49] <pbug> it can never hurt to be a defensive programmer anyhow..
[10:49] <Mouring> bash is great for little 20 - 40 line scripts.
[10:49] <Mouring> but it's no replacement for a real language when it comes to complex proces
[10:49] <Nakhle> I guess in big projects it's better
[10:50] <Mouring> hell I started recently doing php shell scripts. <chuckle>
[10:50] <Mouring> never figured I'd do that in a million years.
[10:50] <Nakhle> btw, who the fuck writes 300,000 lines of code in perl?
[10:50] <Nakhle> maybe just debian
[10:50] <Nakhle> :)
[10:51] <Mouring> nakhle, Any major web application you see written is normally 50,000+ lines
[10:51] <Nakhle> really show me one
[10:52] <Nakhle> cpanel?
[10:52] <Mouring> http://ecf.mnd.uscourts.gov .. 300,000 lines of perl from external interfa
[10:52] <pbug> why are you bugging mouring? he's talking about proprietary stuff
[10:52] <Nakhle> I'm learning pbug
[10:52] <Nakhle> :)
[10:52] <Mouring> I would dare say that any of the travel sites are nearly that amount if not
[10:53] * Mouring hates javascript.. <Sigh>
[10:53] <Nakhle> is cpanel closed source?
[10:54] * Mouring doesn't care about cpanel.
[10:54] <Nakhle> maybe slashdot is done in perl too
[10:56] <Nakhle> first how did you conclude its 300,000 lines of perl code. secondly, you sai
[10:56] <kneer0w> cpanel is close sourced.
[10:56] <Nakhle> anyone can throw hundreds of perl scripts in to a site
[10:57] <Nakhle> and say it has 300,000 lines of code
[10:57] <kneer0w> wait. the source is open
[10:57] <kneer0w> you just can't use it or copy it.
[10:57] <Nakhle> i dont think thats what you ment
[10:57] <Mouring> nakhle, how do I know about the uscourts.gov one? <LAUGH> I've been
[10:57] <Mouring> I know the code quality and the amount of code on the project.
[10:58] <Mouring> The compay I'm moving to has a larger code base all in PHP/Javascript.
[10:59] <Mouring> Cool.. SetchUp personal edition is coming.
[11:00] <SvX> I'm just curious
[11:00] <SvX> can unix do everything windows xp does?
[11:01] <Mouring> How can Windows XP do everything MacOS X does?
[11:01] <SvX> I mean xp is a very advanced OS with a nice shell/gui
[11:01] <SvX> when I log onto my unix shell I just get a command prompt type screen
[11:01] <stdio> hahahahaha
[11:01] <stdio> SvX people like you AMAZE me
[11:01] <stdio> thank you
[11:01] <stdio> :)
[11:01] <Mouring> When I ran Linux I had a pretty graphica display. =-)
[11:02] <kneer0w> SvX: you're just not loading x windows
[11:02] <kneer0w> stdio: well .. dude, he's just curious :I
[11:02] <kneer0w> stdio: we've all been there at some point in time
[11:02] <stdio> kneer0w: curious people don't ask question like that ;-)
[11:02] <kneer0w> making fun of him isn't going to solve anything :/
[11:02] <stdio> not making fun
[11:02] <stdio> it's how he approaches things...
[11:03] <SvX> video cards make drivers for x windows?
[11:03] <Mouring> cool.. I'm getting emails from @irs.gov that are faked.
[11:03] <stdio> SvX: how would it work, otherwise?
[11:03] <Nakhle> What is wrong with that please: http://pastebin.com/685381 (very small code,
[11:03] * Nakhle first step into c :)
[11:03] <stdio> Mouring: do they ask to wire money to Ghana?
[11:04] <SvX> stdio same with xp. it has its default drivers that are pretty generic and aren
[11:04] <Mouring> they are telling me I have 63.80$ tax return waitig =-)
[11:05] <stdio> SvX: default or not, there are drivers. you did not ask about driver quality,
[11:05] <tbsmith> How can I give a user enough rights to fix my DNS on my box but prevent him
[11:05] <SvX> jeez stdio stop being so aggresive
[11:05] <stdio> tbsmith: jail your bind
[11:05] <roycroft> give him the password for the bind account
[11:06] <stdio> SvX: my woman likes aggresiveness
[11:06] <Mouring> tbsmith you really can't depending on what he is "fixing".
[11:06] <roycroft> bind runs as user bind and is chrooted
[11:06] <SvX> well its intimidating
[11:06] <stdio> roycroft: it's not chrooted all the time
[11:06] <stdio> is it?
[11:06] <tbsmith> and all the necessary files in /etc/ can be changed?
[11:07] <roycroft> it is when it's run by competent sysadmins
[11:07] <stdio> competent sysadmin would come here asking how to give enough rights...?
[11:07] <roycroft> no "necessary" files are in /etc
[11:07] <SvX> could you ssh to xp and get the whole windows xp desktp and everything?
[11:07] <SvX> because I know I ssh into my freebsd shell
[11:07] * stdio suddenly feels he is in linuxhelp
[11:08] <Mr_You> SvX: Microsoft Remote Desktop or Ultra-VNC
[11:08] <fugi> sounds like a rocky and bullwinkle title
[11:11] <Mouring> "Hey rocky... Watch me pull an answer out of my ass.." "I do't now bullwin
[11:11] <SvX> Mr_You microsoft desktop is just ssh?
[11:12] <SvX> so you could use putty instead of microsoft desktop thingy?
[11:12] <Nakhle> how do I square a number? in C
[11:13] <tbsmith> **2
[11:15] <Nakhle> i just did result=x*x;
[11:16] <Mouring> if results, x and x are all of integer... the value of results could be an
[11:19] <pbug> hrmm **2 isn't mentioned in my K&R, is it C++?
[11:20] <roycroft> man exp(3)
[11:21] <Mouring> really need to buy myself a good javascript book.
[11:21] <pbug> roy: that'll work, but I was interested where the **2 came from..
[11:21] * pbug looks for his stroustrup book..
[11:23] <Nakhle> What do you mean Mouring?
[11:23] <Nakhle> 'if results, x and x are all of integer... the value of results could be an
[11:23] <Mouring> lets take a simple example..
[11:24] <Nakhle> ok
[11:24] <Mouring> assuming an integer can oly be -16 to 16 ... if x=3 then 9 is the square.
[11:24] <Mouring> if x=4 16 is the square.. but if x=5 what is the value?
[11:24] <Nakhle> an integer can be -16?
[11:25] <Nakhle> I dont think it can
[11:25] <Nakhle> integer > 0
[11:25] <Mouring> And you have "Unsigned Int" is just 0 .. 32
[11:25] <Nakhle> i just had a seg fault
[11:25] <Nakhle> so im guessing this is what you talked about
[11:25] <Mouring> In math.. Integer is any whole number which can be negative or positive.
[11:26] * Nakhle nods
[11:26] <Nakhle> 25 ?
[11:26] <Mouring> 5 * 5 = 25.. but since the FIRST bit of the SIGNED integer defines positiv
[11:26] <Nakhle> still an int
[11:26] <Mouring> I believe it would be -7 or -8
[11:27] <Nakhle> interesting
[11:27] <Mouring> same is true if you did unsigned int (where the range is 0 .. 32) and you
[11:27] <Mouring> but instead of a negative number you end up with 4
[11:28] <Nakhle> hah I still don't get you :/
[11:28] <Nakhle> too complicated
[11:28] <Mouring> and is a major problem when it comes to security. =-)
[11:29] <Mouring> "Integer Overflow" is the term.
[11:29] <Mouring> It's in any good programming book.
[11:29] <pbug> I believe in asm there is a register value one can check if an overflow occure
[11:29] <fugi> yea
[11:29] <fugi> flags
[11:30] <fugi> it's a bit in that register
[11:30] <Mouring> pbug, yes at that level.. but up at the C level it becomes harder to detect
[11:30] <pbug> is there a way in C to check that flag?
[11:30] <Nakhle> so what is the solution?
[11:30] <Nakhle> use another kind of var?
[11:30] <Mouring> It becomes damn well impossible with PHP and other higher level languages.
[11:30] <fugi> you can, if you run all your code through a debugger
[11:31] <Mouring> ermm.. what was the logic I saw in OpenSSH when this happen. They had a wa
[11:31] <pbug> I'm sure there is production code attached to a debugger in some operations..
[11:31] <Nakhle> Mouring, what would you do to avoid this?
[11:31] <Mouring> if (x*x < x) { fatal("Overflow"); } assuming Unsigned.
[11:31] <Mouring> or that was one way.
[11:32] <fugi> if you check your input you won't have to deal with that
[11:32] <Mouring> But that doesn't catch the case where the over flow could wrap over and bey
[11:32] <Mouring> fugi, yes
[11:32] <fugi> if you have char input[255] and stycpy(input,userdate) you're fucked, why do y
[11:32] <fugi> the computer at that point will just tell you you can't code
[11:32] <fugi> and laugh at you
[11:33] <Nakhle> Mouring, x * x cannot be smaller than x
[11:33] <pbug> not just the computer in some cases..
[11:33] <fugi> yes it can
[11:33] <Nakhle> can it?
[11:34] <pbug> nakhle: if it overflows..
[11:34] <Mouring> Nakhle, if it OVERFLOWS the space you allocated it.
[11:34] <Mouring> That is the whole point of this conversation. =-)
[11:34] <Mouring> If your integer is 32bits.. and the value of the multiplication results in
[11:34] <fugi> if X is 32769 and the buffer stops at 65535, x*x<x
[11:34] <pbug> nakhle: pretend you have an unsigned integer, 4 bit in size, meaning you can s
[11:35] <pbug> that's what really happens in an overflow
[11:35] <Nakhle> so the solution is using a bigger kind of var?
[11:35] <fugi> no
[11:35] <Nakhle> like.. double?
[11:35] <Nakhle> i barely remember var types
[11:35] <fugi> it's checking your data before manipulating
[11:35] <Nakhle> what would one do?
[11:36] <fugi> if(x >= 32768) printf("YOU BOOB!"); else printf("%d",x*x);
[11:38] <pbug> nakhle: what fugi is saying and has said you check the input value first and i
[11:39] <Nakhle> ah
[11:39] <Nakhle> I see
[11:39] <Nakhle> gotcha :))
[11:39] <fugi> or instead of bailing, pushing it into a variable type that'll fit it, or what
[11:40] <Mouring> in C changing data types isn't fun.. erroring is much easier.
[11:40] <pbug> kosher, there is a word I haven't used much.. last I heard it I heard my mothe
[11:40] <Mouring> mainly when you know you shouldn't reach it.
[11:42] <fugi> erroring takes the fun out of the whole thing
[11:43] <pbug> panic: sorry my programmer thought things internally are a mess, so fsck you a
[11:43] <Mouring> function square(int x) { if (x >= 32768) { errno=EDOM; return (0); } ret
[11:43] <fugi> I write my code so it doesn't bend over and take it like a shiksa
[11:43] <Mouring> that way you can see if it failed by checking if (errno == EDOM) after the
[11:43] <roycroft> if you use exp() it will error on overflow or underflow
[11:44] * roycroft is a strong proponent of using standard library routines when possible
[11:44] <roycroft> reinventing the wheel is dumb
[11:44] <stdio> roycroft: but it could be fun
[11:44] <Mouring> royroft, I agree.. the discussion to my degree was more pointing out about
[11:45] <Mouring> in fact I was looing at the exp() to see what it set errno =-) so it was co
[11:46] <pbug> stroustrup: recommends pow() which is the same as exp()
[11:46] <pbug> I mean stroustrup recommends..
[11:47] <pbug> he does show an example of where a ** b is used however he points out its faul
[11:48] <roycroft> bjarne is responsible for that abomination called c++
[11:48] <pbug> oddly enough I've never seen ** before and it's not even directly mentioned in
[11:48] <roycroft> c++ is the perl of object-oriented languages
[11:48] <Mouring> pbug, discussions o the manpage state that pow() as you reach the upper lim
[11:49] <pbug> heh
[11:49] <fugi> haha
[11:49] <fugi> yes it is
[11:49] <fugi> I despise any OOP though
[11:49] <pbug> I never really attempted c++, bought the book though
[11:49] <fugi> it's ugly
[11:49] <roycroft> objective c is much cleaner
[11:49] <pbug> the only time I've evern done OOP though is in a java class and a bit of pytho
[11:49] <Milamber> Wooo.. The Nintendo Wii!
[11:49] <Mouring> OOP when done right is fine.. but it rarely is done right.
[11:50] <fugi> that's because it's a cluster fuck
[11:50] <Milamber> Crazy japanese and their funky naming schemes.
[11:50] <pbug> what is wiki? new zealandish?
[11:51] <Mouring> fugi, <shrug> I like using them as overgrown modules. Group common f
[11:51] <Mouring> saves from having global variables. =-)
[11:54] <pbug> I guess everyone supposedly likes OOP is because you can have one guy make the
[11:54] <pbug> and everything is supposed to be smooth like butter while utilizing a shitload
[11:55] <roycroft> oop is also nice because you can create black boxes and reuse them trivial
[11:55] <pbug> that's sorta what I meant but couldn't explain
[11:55] <Snooze> roycroft for certain values of trivially
[11:55] <pt_> when did they add the .ss2/authorization file stuff
[11:55] <pt_> identification i m,ean
[11:55] <roycroft> if you make the box correctly you can pump random data types through it an
[11:56] <Snooze> ...
[11:56] <roycroft> i mean really, honestly, trivially
[11:56] * Snooze politely smiles
[11:56] <pbug> hrmm
[11:56] <roycroft> but you have to code the black box properly
[11:56] <roycroft> that part is not necessarily trivial
[11:57] <Mouring> roycroft, overgrown module code that is tightly bound to the dataset.
[11:57] <Snooze> or visited inheritence hell
[11:57] <Mouring> That is the only thing I like about OOP.
[11:57] <Mouring> All the "overriding functions" tidbits bothers me.. but I don't subclass a
[11:58] <Nakhle> lool
[11:58] <Snooze> i didn't get that one
[11:58] <pbug> I like kicking these bots startin with the first few characters of their nick
[11:58] <Snooze> sure it was a bot?
[11:58] <pbug> no
[11:58] <pbug> but I like kicking anyhow
[11:58] <Mouring> did it return to whine?
[11:58] <pbug> if they aren't a bot they'll complain
[11:59] <Snooze> oh, is that how it works?
[11:59] <Snooze> /k pbug bot detected
[11:59] <pbug> *user* why.. huh? why U kix0r me?
[12:00] <pbug> I'm not just a bot... I'm a babbling bot :P
[12:00] <pbug> fresh ai, one day they'll disassemble me and trap my soul in a computer at MIT
[12:01] <Mouring> sadly they went to a frat house and found a gibbering drunk.
[12:01] <pbug> heh
[12:02] <pbug> just filling up the spectrum of human behaviour, we can't just be of one norm,
[12:02] <pbug> however I do feel some people want to kill my type of norm
[12:03] <roycroft> i don't mind you in general, pbug
[12:03] <roycroft> you do babble a lot though
[12:03] <pbug> stress relief
[12:04] <Snooze> what he's trying to say is, stfu
[12:04] <pbug> I know I know :P
[12:04] <pbug> what would this world be without the people that want silence all the time :P
[12:04] <roycroft> groovy
[12:04] <Yashy> quiet
[12:05] <roycroft> senator wyden has been fillibustering since 7:53 this morning to roll back
[12:05] <roycroft> we haven't had a good fillibuster in a while
[12:05] <roycroft> wyden may not be a totally useless republican in democrat's clothing after
[12:05] * roycroft still won't ever vote for him again though
[12:05] * Yashy fufilled his daily wiki quota today
[12:07] <Mouring> they want to give everyon $100 oil rebate
[12:07] <Mouring> well gas rebate
[12:07] <Snooze> Mouring i love it
[12:07] * Yashy is trying umbrella
[12:07] <Yashy> who made thsi stupid UML stuff? :)
[12:07] <Yashy> Umbrello rather
[12:08] <Yashy> I think they should raise gas prices another $1
[12:08] <Snooze> Mouring will do squat in the long run, by the time the $100 rebate gets to t
[12:09] <roycroft> that $100 rebate will never pass
[12:09] <pbug> have they figured out to make oil out of blood yet? I mean there is 20 millio
[12:09] <roycroft> it was never intended ot pass
[12:09] <roycroft> it was just a typical frist posturing manouever
[12:09] <Snooze> roycroft right, it was for the soundbyte
[12:10] <roycroft> frist is running for president by introducing ridiculous bills in the sena
[12:12] <e^lnx> what does "PID" stand for in unix/linux???
[12:13] <Mouring> Process ID
[12:13] <e^lnx> are u sure??
[12:13] <pbug> yeah
[12:13] <e^lnx> oki
[12:14] <Mouring> e^lnx walks into a doctors office and second guesses the doctor as well I g
[12:14] <e^lnx> and it had nothing to do with, "Proportional Integral Derivative" (PID)
[12:14] <pbug> I second guess doctors
[12:14] <pbug> I think they are wrong half the time
[12:15] <Mouring> "TypeError - Object (result of expression SaveData) does ot allow calls."
[12:15] <pbug> there was an interesting case of a british man who was diagnosed with AIDS, he
[12:16] <pbug> so they are trying to figure out how that happened...
[12:18] <fugi> it was teh drugz!
[12:19] <fugi> are you trying to get rid of your aids or something?
[12:19] <fugi> and that doesn't make sense, why would they test him again after they knew he
[12:19] <pbug> perhaps he requested it to make sure
[12:20] <pbug> maybe he was wondering why he was still alive
[12:20] <fugi> make sure? it's fuckin aids
[12:20] <Mouring> why didn't he retest RIGHT AWAY.
[12:20] <pbug> the moral of the story is that miracles can happen or that the medical system
[12:21] <Mouring> pbug, and in this case it wasn't the doctor's fault.. it was the team doing
[12:21] <fugi> or maybe it's that if you get aids, do lots of drugs and get so much AIDS that
[12:21] <Mouring> what doctor would have let someone walk out without a reset is beyond me.
[12:21] <fugi> like those guys that go so gay they come all the way around back to straight
[12:21] <pbug> I don't know how it happened
[12:21] <Mouring> fugi, you share needles to get aids.. if you share enough needles the aids
[12:22] <pbug> I just read it in the news
[12:22] <fugi> exactly.
[12:22] <fugi> pbug: you should try getting more AIDS to get rid of your AIDS
[12:22] <pbug> fugi: I'll do what comes my way
[12:23] <fugi> become a prostitute in central africa and only accept heroin in used needles f
[12:23] <Mouring> getElumentById <chuckle>
[12:23] <pbug> fugi: africa is for africans
[12:23] <Tas0> TRUE
[12:24] <fugi> and people with aids
[12:24] <pbug> their problem
[12:24] <fugi> there was some story about an african official taking a shower after having se
[12:24] <fugi> he has AIDS now.
[12:24] <pbug> not the rest of the worlds, the african will find a way on his own term, not w
[12:25] <fugi> JOHANNESBURG, Apr 11 (IPS) - AIDS activists have expressed concern about a rem
[12:25] <pbug> people have always died young in africa.. the land doesn't provide a long life
[12:26] <e^lnx> if a UNIX file has a protection mode 755(octal). What can the owner, owner’s
[12:27] <fugi> rwxr-xr-x
[12:27] <e^lnx> fugi: translate that pl
[12:27] <e^lnx> *plz
[12:28] <fugi> user, group, other 7 is 111 5 is 101, pattern is rwx, so 755 is 111101101 whic
[12:28] <pbug> e^lnx: http://hackepedia.org or something, I think there is something explaine
[12:28] <e^lnx> oki
[12:28] <e^lnx> tnx
[12:29] * Mouring chuckles.. well that works as well as crossing the ocean on foot.
[12:29] <pbug> mouring: you just gotta find the tunnel and have lots of time..
[12:30] <revstray> Mouring: If you can get sufficient speed and air pockets under your feet,
[12:30] <Mouring> I need to rewrite the style="" on the html object to save the position.. or
[12:31] <fugi> revstray: yea if they could spin fast enough you could have a cavitation effec
[12:32] <fugi> a "cavitation dome" for traveling across the ocean by foot. yes...
[12:32] <fugi> you could even employ a "laser"
[12:33] <pbug> been reading up about sqvall torpedos?
[12:33] <fugi> no
[12:33] <Snooze> when i run mysqld_safe i get this
[12:33] <Snooze> Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /var/lib/mysql
[12:33] <Snooze> STOPPING server from pid file /var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid
[12:33] <Snooze> 060427 05:33:07 mysqld ended
[12:33] <Snooze> what do i need to look for?
[12:34] <fugi> look in te error log
[12:34] <wettoast> /var/lib, there is place for a databsse..
[12:34] <fugi> /var/lib/mysql/<hostname>.err
[12:34] <roycroft> a proper dbms
[12:35] <fugi> I always hated when people would put mysql in /var/lib
[12:35] <wettoast> Snooze: doesnt it come with a proper starup script for your os?
[12:35] <fugi> it should live in /usr/local
[12:35] <pbug> if I recall correctly mysql once didn't start like that because there was as s
[12:35] <wettoast> lib == library, not databse.
[12:35] <roycroft> on my database servers i have a /usr/local/db filesystem
[12:35] <pbug> but it would be mentioned in the logs
[12:35] <wettoast> must be a linux layout
[12:35] <Snooze> wettoast that's where fedora wants to put it, so i'm going with the flow
[12:35] <roycroft> that is the sane place to put it
[12:35] <fugi> yea, linux puts it in /var/lib
[12:36] <fugi> fedora and RH
[12:36] <fugi> eh
[12:36] <Snooze> roycroft since there's only 1 partition on this system, directory doesn't re
[12:36] <wettoast> Snooze: ok, so there should be some init.d type script to start it..
[12:36] <fugi> centos
[12:36] <roycroft> yet another reason to avoid linux
[12:36] <fugi> yup
[12:36] <Snooze> roycroft you mean a system with a small hd
[12:36] <fugi> wettoast: you don't need the script to start it
[12:36] <Snooze> it would have been silly for me to attempt to partition it
[12:36] <fugi> the errorlog should be examined
[12:36] <fugi> probably permissions
[12:37] <roycroft> but i always do my own install of database engines
[12:37] <wettoast> fugi: yes, but the script will should ensure all is well
[12:37] <Snooze> wtf
[12:37] <roycroft> so they can go wherever i want them to go
[12:37] <Snooze> [root@remedial log]# cp /dev/null mysqld.log
[12:37] <Snooze> cp: overwrite `mysqld.log'? y
[12:37] <Snooze> since when did cp default to cp -i?
[12:37] <fugi> it's in aliases
[12:37] <fugi> fucking linux.
[12:37] <roycroft> yet another reason to avoid linux
[12:37] <roycroft> :)
[12:37] <Snooze> faqwerw
[12:38] <fugi> Why are you running fedora?
[12:38] <Snooze> great, they're all aliased like that
[12:38] <Mouring> eeehh.. I think I want to pull from the dom instead of the innerHTML..
[12:38] <roycroft> cp: did you ask your mom?
[12:38] <Mouring> <whines>
[12:38] <fugi> haha
[12:38] <Yashy> I think -i is a good idea on cp and rm by default.. good for newbs. Once you'
[12:38] <Snooze> fugi for some reason the fbsd 6 boot loader doesn't want to play nicely with
[12:38] <fugi> I'd try NBSD before linux.
[12:38] <fugi> but whatever floats your boat
[12:38] <wettoast> mysqld_safe --defaults-extra-file=${mysql_dbdir}/my.cnf --user=${mysql_use
[12:38] <pbug> yashy: yes y | cp -i blah blah
[12:39] <roycroft> at the very most there might be a "newbie" flag you can set on initial ins
[12:39] <fugi> there's not.
[12:39] <Yashy> pbug: If you're comfortable with pipes, you should be comfortable enough to r
[12:39] <roycroft> but never should standard utilities have non-standard aliases by default
[12:39] <fugi> that's like saying "there's somewhere in WinXP setup where you can check a box
[12:39] <roycroft> sure there is
[12:39] <Snooze> great
[12:39] <fugi> the "no" button?
[12:40] * Snooze detects a scroll rant
[12:40] <roycroft> when you first start the install there's an "accept this license?" button
[12:40] <roycroft> you can click on "decline"
[12:40] <fugi> I beat you to that one
[12:40] <Snooze> both of you can stop this conversation right now
[12:40] <fugi> by a good bit.
[12:40] <fugi> Snooze: oh go start mysql.
[12:41] <wettoast> Snooze
[12:41] <wettoast> try: --defaults-extra-file=${mysql_dbdir}/my.cnf --user=${mysql_user} --da
[12:41] <wettoast> and check logfile
[12:41] <Snooze> ya trying that
[12:41] <wettoast> hosname.err
[12:41] <fugi> or check logfile first
[12:41] <roycroft> i'm not ranting
[12:41] <roycroft> just reacting
[12:41] <Snooze> mysqld_safe --user=root
[12:41] <Snooze> Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /var/lib/mysql
[12:41] <Snooze> looks like that worked
[12:41] <roycroft> *chuckle*
[12:41] <fugi> so it was permissions
[12:41] <fugi> I told you
[12:41] <Snooze> now to see what's goofy
[12:42] <wettoast> might want to create a mysql user/group
[12:42] <Snooze> nod
[12:42] <roycroft> gee
[12:42] <fugi> and chown/chgrp
[12:42] <roycroft> doesn't your port/rpm do all that stuff for you?
[12:42] <Snooze> i haven't gotten around to making users yet it's a fresh install
[12:42] <roycroft> i thought ports/rpms were the greatest things since sliced bread
[12:42] <fugi> a fresh install of CRAP
[12:42] <Snooze> i don't know
[12:42] <pbug> is mysqld supposed to run as root?
[12:42] <fugi> no
[12:42] <roycroft> NEVER
[12:42] <Snooze> pbug no
[12:42] <pbug> ahh ok
[12:42] <Snooze> oh yes, there is a mysql user
[12:42] <wettoast> pbug: ideally, nothing should run as root
[12:42] <roycroft> that's the scariest thing i've heard all day
[12:43] <fugi> yah.
[12:43] <Snooze> mysql:x:27:27:MySQL Server:/var/lib/mysql:/bin/bash
[12:43] <fugi> why does it have a shell?
[12:43] <pbug> there's your directory for the mysql stuff
[12:43] <fugi> that's not kosher..
[12:43] <Snooze> now how do you shutdown mysql?
[12:43] <wettoast> Snooze: if you installed from a package, there should be a starup script t
[12:43] <fugi> kill
[12:43] <fugi> or mysqladmin shutdown
[12:44] * roycroft is thoroughly enjoying all this but really needs to go get some lunch
[12:44] <fugi> get me a bagel.
[12:44] <roycroft> that's what i'm going to have
[12:44] <roycroft> well
[12:44] <roycroft> a bagel-like thing
[12:44] <Snooze> sweet
[12:44] <roycroft> there are no bagels on the west coast
[12:45] <Yashy> goatse = "a bagel-like thing"
[12:45] * Snooze rolls his eyes
[12:45] <fugi> haha
[12:45] * fugi rolls Snooze's eyes too
[12:45] <Snooze> roycroft you try too hard to be a smug unix admin
[12:45] * fugi puts some more chips past the line
[12:45] * Yashy rolls fugi
[12:46] <wettoast> welp, time to throw the steaks on the bbq :)
[12:46] <fugi> Snooze: atleast he knows how to work mysql
[12:46] <Yashy> mMmM bbq steaks
[12:46] <Snooze> fugi ya well
[12:46] <pbug> isn't there supposed to be a funny website called "theonion.com"?
[12:46] <Snooze> news satire site
[12:47] <pbug> I get a blank page..
[12:47] <pbug> wtf
[12:47] <fugi> me too
[12:47] <fugi> you broke it
[12:47] <fugi> OMG!
[12:47] <pbug> ok so then it's just me
[12:47] <pbug> err not just me
[12:47] <fugi> mobile.theonion.com
[12:48] <Snooze> host www.theonion.com
[12:48] <Snooze> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
[12:48] <Snooze> looks like they have denied news service
[12:48] <fugi> www.theonion.com is a nickname for prpx.service.mirror-image.net
[12:48] <fugi> prpx.service.mirror-image.net has address 204.0.99.120
[12:49] <Yashy> way to go pbug
[12:49] <Yashy> how about you leave the other parody sites alone
[12:49] <pbug> yeah I'm mr. DoS
[12:50] <pbug> looking for ms-dos
[12:50] <Yashy> is your first name Caldera?
[12:51] <pbug> what's a good website if you wanna just read some ol' garbage?
[12:51] <fugi> cnn.com
[12:51] <teclo> FreeDOS, too
[12:52] <pbug> no not cnn.com, anything but that
[12:52] <Tas0> FreeBSDOR
[12:52] <Tas0> FreeBSDOS
[12:52] * Yashy wonders if #unixhelp is published on a website
[12:52] <pbug> I try to avoid cnn.com as good as I can..
[12:52] <fugi> it's good ol garbage
[12:52] <Yashy> pbug: fark.com?
[12:52] <Snooze> hehe
[12:52] <Snooze> this is funny
[12:52] <Snooze> -bash-3.1$ mysqladmin shutdown
[12:52] <Snooze> mysqladmin: shutdown failed; error: 'Access denied; you need the SHUTDOWN pr
[12:52] <Snooze> -bash-3.1$ mysqladmin --user=root shutdown
[12:52] <Snooze> STOPPING server from pid file /var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid
[12:52] <fugi> gunboards.com is where I go when bored
[12:52] <Snooze> so apparently i just need to know the user that has shutdown privs, not the
[12:52] <fugi> Snooze: -uroot is quicker
[12:52] <Snooze> fugi nod
[12:54] <pbug> oh man browsing with firefox makes me sick
[12:54] <pbug> ever since I rediscovered lynx, things were great
[12:54] <pbug> but moving pictures are just sickening
[12:54] <Snooze> okay this is just odd, really odd
[12:55] <Snooze> as user mysql
[12:55] <Snooze> -bash-3.1$ /usr/bin/mysqld_safe --user=root
[12:55] <Snooze> Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /var/lib/mysql
[12:55] <Snooze> so apparently --user=root doesn't mean the user level to run as, but what my
[12:55] <pbug> interesting
[12:55] <pbug> so if you compromise mysql account...
[12:55] <pbug> does it really run as user root?
[12:56] <Snooze> no runs as mysql
[12:56] <Snooze> mysql 2509 0.0 14.1 136168 17904 pts/0 Sl 1978 0:00 /usr/libexe
[12:56] <pbug> what good is the --user flag then anyhow?
[12:57] <Yashy> pbug: http://www.theonion.com/content/index
[12:57] <pbug> or is that in case you want to start mysqld from the rc files and you are root
[12:57] <Snooze> i tried running it as --user=mysql, it couldn't create/open the socket file
[12:58] <pbug> snooze: probably because it's owned by root now
[12:58] <pbug> makes no sense though..
[12:58] <Snooze> i think i need to rtfm some more and find out exactly what --user does
[12:58] <Snooze> pbug no it's not there when the db is off
[13:00] <roycroft> put the socket in the mysql hierarchy and not in /var/run
[13:01] <Snooze> roycroft it is
[13:01] <Snooze> srwxrwxrwx 1 mysql mysql 0 Apr 27 05:54 /var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock
[13:01] <roycroft> chown -R mysql:mysql /var/lib/mysql
[13:01] <Snooze> /var/lib/mysql is owned by mysql.mysql
[13:02] <pbug> why not just delete it, and go on with life
[13:03] <Snooze> pbug because that's how clients talk to mysql
[13:03] <pbug> it should be created when stuff starts up
[13:03] <roycroft> yes, it gets created at startup
[13:03] <Snooze> pbug watch
[13:04] <Snooze> -bash-3.1$ id
[13:04] <Snooze> uid=27(mysql) gid=27(mysql) groups=27(mysql)
[13:04] <Snooze> hrmm
[13:04] <Snooze> maybe not
[13:04] * Snooze boggles
[13:05] <Snooze> Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /var/lib/mysql
[13:05] <Snooze> $ /usr/bin/mysqld_safe --user=mysql
[13:05] <Snooze> Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /var/lib/mysql
[13:05] <Snooze> that time it ran fine
[13:05] <Snooze> last time it bitched
[13:06] <pbug> you're welcome
[13:06] <pbug> what a stupid program
[13:06] <pbug> countless programming hours worth of shit
[13:07] <pbug> can mysql do transactions and rollbacks yet?
[13:07] <roycroft> sort of
[13:07] <roycroft> with that innodb crap
[13:10] <roycroft> my boss is madly in love with mysql
[13:10] <pbug> well I couldn't do better, in fact I gave up doing anything, giving commentary
[13:10] <roycroft> and my boss is a database guru
[13:10] <roycroft> i was complaining to him just today again that our billing database is sti
[13:10] <roycroft> and he said "sure it is"
[13:11] <roycroft> then i asked him why i have to enter a user's email address in four differ
[13:11] <roycroft> (and the email address is not a key in any table)
[13:11] <roycroft> he just stared at me blankly
[13:12] <pbug> hrmm
[13:12] <pbug> yeah the funky key in a relational database
[13:14] <pbug> may as well make it a berkeley db hash like /etc/[s]pwd.db
[13:14] <pbug> there you have keys :P, one for getpwuid(), one for getpwnam(), and I think th
[13:16] <roycroft> key or index?
[13:16] <pbug> lefhand side
[13:17] <pbug> I think it's called key in the berkeley db api, let me see..
[13:18] <pbug> int (*get)(const DB *db, DBT *key, DBT *data,
[13:18] <pbug> unsigned int flags);
[13:18] <pbug> DBT *key..
[13:22] <pbug> is there a zoom function in firefox?
[13:23] <pixil> There's an extension for it, if I remember right.
[13:23] <pbug> ahh never mind then, thanx
[13:23] <pixil> What're you trying to zoom?
[13:23] <pixil> Just text?
[13:23] <pbug> trying not to strain my eyes on a gif of theonion.com's paper issue
[13:24] <pixil> Because CTRL + +/- will zoom in that respect
[13:25] <pbug> no that only makes the thing.. uhm.. the writing bigger not the picture..thank
[13:25] <revstray> If you are one enabled with a middle scroll mouse button, you can hold ctr
[13:26] <pbug> doesn't seem to work on openbsd
[13:26] <pbug> although the middle scroll wheel does work going up and down on the page of fi
[13:26] <pixil> That only zooms the text, but it's better than using ctrl + +/-
[13:26] <pixil> thanks revstray.
[13:26] <pbug> or did once..I wonder why it doesn't anymore..
[13:27] <revstray> ctrl +/- seems to do the same as ctrl + the middle scroll button
[13:27] <pixil> Yes.
[13:27] <revstray> anyone here work with expect much?
[13:27] <pixil> But it's easier. :-)
[13:27] <revstray> yup :)
[13:28] <arno> use autoexpect. it's a snap
[13:28] <roycroft> get a bigger monitor
[13:28] <roycroft> or reduce the resolution of your current monitor
[13:29] <revstray> already using autoexpect to prototype this, trying to figure out how to do
[13:31] <revstray> oh, it's just TCL, n/m
[13:46] <wettoast> or use windows instead of crappy X, and use the Magnifier.
[13:48] <Church> imho it's better to configure fonts with setting minimal size.
[13:49] <Milamber> \
[13:51] <roycroft> what always cracks me up is the folks who say "i have this great monitor -
[13:51] <roycroft> i tell them to reduce the resolution so they can see stuff
[13:51] <roycroft> and they balk at the idea
[13:54] <Church> they should just set right dpi for fonts, no?
[13:55] <roycroft> if they have fonts at that dpi
[13:55] <gita> does apple remote desktop 2 not run on an mbp
[13:55] <Yashy> mayb
[14:07] <pbug> fuck my dns lookups are extremely slow
[14:08] <pbug> I hate this fucking proxy shit they've put on me
[14:08] <pbug> it's like riding in the shortbus
[14:08] <pbug> all the windows are welded shut
[14:10] * Yashy gives pbug a helmet
[14:11] <pbug> ahh shit.. I have only 1 DNS server specified.. and it's in canada..
[14:11] <pbug> no wonder dns is so slow
[14:13] <k6IRI> .
[14:14] <pbug> someone asked me once if I wanted to work in research and development with all
[14:14] <fugi> fucking canadians
[14:14] <pbug> I had to decline...
[14:14] <pbug> that's for people that are _really_ smart :P
[14:15] <pbug> still waiting on my workfare :P
[14:15] <pbug> maybe they'll give me a broom and ask me to sweep the streets
[14:15] <fugi> workfare?
[14:15] <pbug> yeah you know.. slave labour
[14:15] <fugi> no I don't know
[14:15] <fugi> must be a german thing.
[14:16] <pbug> here in germany when you're being paid by the man the man is supposed to get u
[14:16] <pbug> hasn't happened to me, and I'm working on my 3rd term on welfare, that's 18 mo
[14:17] <pbug> the way I see it however it should be a FIFO queue when you're unemployed.. me
[14:17] <pbug> the last ones in should be the last ones out :P
[14:17] <pbug> there is 4.5 million to go before me..
[14:19] <pbug> maybe they can think of a brilliant german idea and send us unemployed to the
[14:20] <pbug> we'll gladly be murdered by the rest
[14:20] <pbug> just take us out of our misery
[14:21] <fugi> if you don't have a job, spending all day on IRC isn't going to get you one.
[14:22] <pbug> oh I look at job ads online
[14:22] <pbug> irc is just a thing in-between
[14:22] <pbug> I haven't found anything attractive yet though
[14:24] <pbug> working just sucks when you feel retarded with _smart_ people around you
[14:24] <pbug> makes ya not want to work at all
[14:24] <pbug> and get fat and lazy, on welfare
[14:25] <pbug> can you tell I'm bored?
[14:25] <pbug> need more of those chicky99 bots to come around so I can kick
[14:35] <pbug> in college I managed to pull a condom over my head..
[14:35] <pbug> and blow it up through my nostrils..
[14:35] <pbug> for some reason people didn't find it as funny as me
[14:40] <fugi> because you have lubrication all over your face
[14:41] <pbug> it's my face, why would other people care? it was amazing it even fit on my h
[14:48] <Sphere`> I have two server and ony one backup unit. How can I backup using the back
[14:49] <pbug> sphere: possibly via some protocol layer 3 and 4 over the link
[14:49] <Sphere`> can you help
[14:50] <pbug> what brand backup unit?
[14:50] <pbug> cool someone just blew a steam whistle around here..
[14:51] <pbug> they usually do that on friday afternoon.. bad timing..
[14:52] * pbug goes to make himself a salad.. bbl
[14:54] <Sphere`> Ultrium 3 IBM
[14:58] <pbug> here's what you do, call IBM and request them to send you software for UNIX
[14:58] <pbug> they will comply
[14:58] <pbug> if they do not...
[14:59] <Sphere`> do you know rdump
[14:59] <pbug> tell them they are a cheap-ass operation and you will never buy from them agai
[14:59] <pbug> heard of it
[15:01] <pbug> I think openbsd got rid of rdump a while ago..
[15:02] <valdo> DNS propagation blows :/
[15:03] <valdo> at least on my ISP's DNS servers
[15:04] <pbug> valdo: you're supposed to monkey around -HUP'ing the named whenever you feel a
[15:04] <pbug> makes great fun
[15:05] <valdo> :)
[15:05] <pbug> if named does it gracefully is another story but DNS is redundant, it'll just
[15:06] <pbug> so what if someone take 2 seconds longer to look up a webpage
[15:07] <pbug> of course there is some jokers that put primary and secondary nameservers on t
[15:08] <valdo> maybe ill just wait for the ttl to expire :)
[15:08] <pbug> which you'll have to wait for anyhow if another nameserver has your zone cache
[15:08] <pbug> you can't get arounnd that
[15:09] <valdo> oh okay
[15:10] <pbug> unless they do frequent SOA queries and check if the serial number has increas
[15:11] <pbug> with mac/os X resolvers that's indeed what happens.. but I dunno if bind does
[15:11] <valdo> I'll check that out
[15:15] <valdo> thanks
[15:15] <pbug> anyone here ever eaten lunch at google?
[15:15] <valdo> euh not me
[15:15] <pbug> hrmm
[15:23] <kermit> is there an easy way to auto sync smbpasswords with nis passwords?
[15:27] <pbug> with freebsd, kermit?
[15:27] <pbug> anyhow I don't know
[15:43] <gita> hi
[15:43] <kermit> with anything
[15:53] <kneer0w> canada is 110, not 220v right?
[15:54] <pbug> yeppers, you can get 225V (250V) HIGH voltage for industrial stuff and stoves
[15:54] <kneer0w> thanks pbug
[15:55] <wettoast> kneer0w: its a north american standard.
[15:56] <pbug> hrmm, too bad I destroyed my old cdrom with archived email from 1997
[15:56] <pbug> I read it one day and went into a fit of rage and destroyed it :(
[16:05] <tbsmith> what controls my shell's ability to lookup domain names when I use ping or
[16:06] <pbug> the resolving libraries
[16:06] <tbsmith> I'm trying to setup dns and I think I've messed it up
[16:06] <pbug> differs in most OS's, what OS?
[16:06] <tbsmith> fedora
[16:07] <pbug> you most likely have a /etc/resolv.conf
[16:07] <tbsmith> nameserver 127.0.0.1
[16:07] <pbug> do you have a nameserver on the same computer running?
[16:07] <tbsmith> that's what I'm trying to do
[16:08] <pbug> usually you'd stick public IP's as nameserver for dns servers of your upstream
[16:08] <tbsmith> once I do that is there a service I need to restart or something?
[16:08] <pbug> nope
[16:09] <tbsmith> what's a good public ns?
[16:09] <pbug> your upstreams
[16:10] <pbug> if your not sure, looking at your dns, it looks like you're from the sprint ne
[16:13] <tbsmith> but i'm working on my godaddy-hosted server
[16:13] <pbug> oh
[16:14] <pbug> then call godaddy and ask them what nameservers you should use on their networ
[16:14] <tbsmith> and their dns is called ns3.secureserver.net but i type that in the file an
[16:14] <pbug> no you put in the IP of it
[16:14] <pbug> not the hostname
[16:14] <tbsmith> oh yeah
[16:26] <Mouring> and my brain age is 61... <sigh>
[16:28] <Church> from where did you got that number? (in case if differs from actual age ;>
[16:28] <valdo> lol right
[16:30] <Mouring> From Brain Age on the DS.
[16:30] <dhartmei> anyone know anyone from worcestershire, uk, by any chance? :)
[16:30] <Mouring> part of its problem is it can't read my writing. =-) Nor understand englis
[16:31] <valdo> you're not 61 are you?
[16:31] <valdo> :)
[16:33] <valdo> damn, how do I turn off the server notices again?
[16:35] <Mouring> no almost half that.
[16:35] <valdo> ok:)
[16:36] <valdo> how to copy whole folder ... to another folder?
[16:39] <valdo> cp -r or cp -R ?
[16:41] <gita> -R
[16:42] <gita> dhartmei: Brighton and Leicester
[16:44] <gita> i need some reading material on retrospect
[16:54] <valdo> does gpg have anything that would allow something to be encrypted, then decry
[16:55] <valdo> ie, myself and another person want to encrypt something. And either of us cou
[16:57] <Figz> I've not seen anything to do that..
[16:58] <valdo> you can encrypt something to two or more keys
[16:58] <valdo> thats what a friend just told me
[16:58] <Figz> you'd have to public key encrypt the symmetrical key twice, thus either public
[16:58] <valdo> I'm looking for the flag of the keys to encrypt to
[16:58] <Figz> there may well be this capability.. it wouldn't grow the file much (the acutal
[16:59] <valdo> gpg -e -R KEYID1 -R KEYID2 FILENAME
[16:59] <valdo> ok
[16:59] <Figz> does it work?
[16:59] <valdo> it does
[17:00] <Figz> coolies :)
[17:00] <valdo> :)
[17:00] <revstray> it's a really cool feature :) that whole multi-key-decrypt thingy
[17:00] <valdo> With that, you won't need a password to encrypt FILENAME.
[17:00] <valdo> It'll encrypt using the public keys for KEYID1 and KEYID2.
[17:00] <Figz> it's somewhat hiding the machinations required for this to work.. the "one to
[17:01] * valdo is looking for the options in the man page
[17:02] <valdo> :)
[17:02] <valdo> -R hides the ids that the file is encrypted to.
[17:02] <valdo> cool
[17:04] <valdo> ow I get to take a look at dotproject
[17:10] <valdo> bbl folks
[17:10] <valdo> :)
[17:10] <gita> http://www.emcinsignia.com/try/ <---ugly page
[17:13] <kermit> i wonder if homeland security can crack gpg
[17:13] <Yashy> I would think NSA is who you'd want to be concerned about
[17:14] * _rynz- sees all the fellow Internet Addicts. Looking forward to another glorious night of
[17:19] <gita> not me
[17:19] <_rynz-> http://www.newschannel5.com/content/news/16405.asp
[17:27] <belter> what a waste
[17:57] * arno_ is now known as arno
[18:51] <roycroft> anyone here know andrew howe?
[19:09] <wettoast> anyone know the default keys to switch windows in epic4?
[19:10] <SvX> man I don't get my uni
[19:10] <SvX> you know.. I don't like how you take your programming courses and learn java an
[19:10] <SvX> there are kids taking hire classes in computer science than me, and they don't
[19:11] <SvX> infact the CS teacher showed everyone how to upload files to their uni director
[19:12] <kermit> lol noobs
[19:12] <roycroft> what does ftp, unix shells, http, and proxies have to do with introductory
[19:13] * roycroft bets that 97% of computer users have no clue what ftp is, and at least 50% of pr
[19:13] <kermit> i'm calling you out on that
[19:13] <kermit> you're saying 1/2 of professional programmers don't know what ftp is
[19:14] <roycroft> yup
[19:14] <kermit> copied. saved.
[19:14] <roycroft> i bet it's true
[19:14] <kermit> i'll save this little puppy for a rainy day
[19:14] <roycroft> there's a whole generation of programmers out there who have never used an
[19:15] <roycroft> i think you'd be hard pressed to disprove my assertion
[19:15] <roycroft> and admittedly i'd be hard pressed to prove it
[19:15] <kermit> ftp, one of the the most pervasive and popular protocols use in modern compu
[19:15] <kermit> you dont have to try to prove it
[19:16] <roycroft> but based on my interactions with young programmers and cs students my gut
[19:16] <roycroft> ftp is almost deprecated at this point
[19:16] <arcsine> young programmers would surely be only a small subset of the programmer pop
[19:16] <roycroft> if front page weren't so utterly moronic and broken ftp would hardly be us
[19:16] <kermit> how old do you the average professional programmer is?
[19:17] <roycroft> i don't know
[19:17] <roycroft> i suppose in this country the average age is increasing as more and more c
[19:17] <kermit> so you're saying they've never heard of it, or have heard of it but don't kn
[19:17] <roycroft> the latter
[19:17] <kermit> ok
[19:17] <roycroft> i'll concede that most have at least heard the term
[19:18] <kermit> i totally disagree, but like you said we have no data
[19:18] <roycroft> but even folks who don't push things to webservers with frontpage extensio
[19:18] <roycroft> they know that frontpage has an "ftp" button
[19:18] <roycroft> and all they know is that when they can't publish using frontpage they cli
[19:18] <kermit> i dont understand how you can use computers for years and not come across ft
[19:19] <kermit> come across it and use it
[19:19] <roycroft> if you only ever use windows you would not know
[19:19] <kermit> lots of software is still distributed via ftp
[19:19] <kermit> along with http, cvs, etc
[19:19] * arcsine looks incredulously at roycroft
[19:19] <roycroft> i have friends who work at a big gaming house and a big .edu software hous
[19:20] <roycroft> and although the sysadmins know ftp well, the whole network is using windo
[19:20] * roycroft doesn't know much about how windows networking functions
[19:20] <roycroft> they don't ftp anything
[19:20] <roycroft> they just connect to a share and drag 'n' drop stuff
[19:21] <kermit> your circle of noobs and the uninitiated don't count as 'half of professiona
[19:21] <roycroft> my "circle of noobs" are the admins who keep the network together
[19:21] <roycroft> and they know quite well
[19:21] <kermit> alright
[19:21] <kermit> and the programmers they service are in the dark as to even something as pre
[19:22] <kermit> that didn't come out right
[19:22] <kermit> programmers they provide service for
[19:22] <roycroft> yes
[19:22] <roycroft> believe me
[19:23] <roycroft> much beer is consumed on a weekly basis while they lament about how little
[19:23] * roycroft refers the channel to pacman and the pink cable as a classic example
[19:23] <kermit> so thats where this is coming from
[19:23] <roycroft> that's part of it
[19:24] <kermit> nearly every cs student at my school knows what ftp is
[19:24] <roycroft> twenty years ago i'd have said otherwise
[19:24] <kermit> same goes for it and ce
[19:25] <roycroft> virtually none of the ones i've interviewed in the last five years do
[19:25] <roycroft> when interviewing for sysadmins they mostly know
[19:25] <roycroft> but if it's just programming they're usually pretty clueless
[19:25] <roycroft> they know how to code but they rely on others for systems support
[19:26] <kermit> if i was interviewing for a sys admin position and the candidate didn't know
[19:26] <kermit> "this interview is over"
[19:26] <kermit> "security?!"
[19:26] <roycroft> yes
[19:26] <roycroft> a sysadmin interviewee who does not know what ftp is is immediately dismis
[19:27] <roycroft> but coders don't necessarily need to know
[19:27] <kermit> they don't need to know
[19:27] <kermit> but i'd wager over half of them do know
[19:27] <kermit> i count clicking on a link internet explorer and downloading something via f
[19:27] <roycroft> yes
[19:27] <roycroft> i didn't say they don't use ftp
[19:27] <roycroft> i said they don't have a clue as to what it is
[19:28] <kermit> it seems too far fetched for me, but whatever
[19:28] <roycroft> and "it's a different way of downloading than http" is not clue
[19:28] <roycroft> i don't wish to argue about this
[19:28] <roycroft> you have feelings one way
[19:28] <roycroft> i the other
[19:28] <kermit> like i said, they just have to know what it stands for and what it's purpose
[19:28] <roycroft> and neither of us can prove our point
[19:29] <kermit> true
[19:29] <roycroft> so i'll go on feeling as i do and you will do the same
[19:29] <roycroft> feeling as you do, that is
[19:29] <kermit> alright
[19:29] <kermit> you're too old and jaded
[19:29] <roycroft> i'm not jaded
[19:29] <kermit> your faith in humanity has been tested
[19:29] <roycroft> the world changes
[19:30] <kermit> the world does change
[19:30] <roycroft> i don't think the survival of humankind depends on clueful ftp abilities
[19:30] <kermit> i don't think so either
[19:30] <roycroft> i don't think it's a negative thing that 97% of computer users and 50% of
[19:31] <roycroft> i just think that's what is
[19:31] <roycroft> ftp SHOULD go away btw
[19:31] <roycroft> it's a crufty old protocol
[19:31] <kermit> i think if you've been using computers for 5 or 10 years you sknow knwo what
[19:31] <roycroft> why?
[19:32] <kermit> actually let me qualify that with and you are a computer professional
[19:32] <roycroft> that's like saying if you've been driving a car for five or ten years you
[19:32] <kermit> in any capacity
[19:32] <kermit> no its like saying if you've been designing automobiles for 5 or 10 years yo
[19:32] <roycroft> i bet you 97% of automobile owners who drive cars with map sensors have no
[19:33] <roycroft> no
[19:33] <roycroft> it's like saying if you've been desigining transmissions for five or ten y
[19:33] <kermit> ftp is not some obscure think tucked away and hidden from view that you have
[19:33] <kermit> s/think/thing
[19:34] <roycroft> no, but it's not something most folks overtly use on a regular basis
[19:34] <roycroft> most web browsers handle ftp urls automagically
[19:34] * arcsine alters roycroft's base timing
[19:34] <kermit> most computer programmers don't use ftp on a regular basis, i agree
[19:34] <kermit> but most of them have used it enough to know what it is
[19:34] <roycroft> most people know what they need to know to get done what they need to get
[19:35] <roycroft> and believe it or not, an awful lot of coders only code 9-5
[19:35] <kermit> i believe that
[19:35] <roycroft> it's only use unix nuts who are fanatical
[19:35] <kermit> no
[19:35] <roycroft> consistently fanatical
[19:35] <roycroft> sorry
[19:35] <kermit> there are plenty of windows users who dont like unix that know what ftp is
[19:35] <roycroft> there are fanatics in other disciplines
[19:35] <roycroft> and there's plenty more who don't
[19:35] <roycroft> anyway
[19:36] <roycroft> we're not ever going to go anywhere with this
[19:36] <roycroft> you have a position and i have a position
[19:36] <roycroft> and neither of us are going to persuade the other to alter theirs
[19:36] <roycroft> so i think instead i'll go out and tend to the barbie
[19:36] <kermit> enjoy
[19:36] <roycroft> i have some nice salmon to grill
[19:37] <wettoast> at 10:37pm?
[19:38] <wettoast> in any case, salmon is best enjoyed raw :)
[19:39] <arcsine> mmm sushi <3
[19:39] <roycroft> it's 7:39PM here
[19:39] <roycroft> and salmon can be enjoyed in a number of ways
[19:39] <roycroft> this particular salmon is not sashimi quality
[19:40] <arcsine> aww :(
[19:40] <roycroft> i shall be cooking it, thank you very much
[19:40] <arcsine> make sure you leave the skin on
[19:47] <wettoast> yeah, i've yet to figure out where you can buy sashimi quality fish...
[19:47] <wettoast> perhaps best to buy live fish and process yourself
[19:54] <roycroft> there are several local markets where i can purchase sashimi quality fish
[19:54] <roycroft> and when i'm making sushi i do so
[19:55] <roycroft> but i can't justify spending $18/lb on sashimi quality salmon when i can g
[20:00] <Yashy> wettoast: loblaws? ;)
[20:02] <wettoast> i dont know, i dont trust the supermarkets
[20:02] <wettoast> i saw tuna labeled "sashimi quality" at a&p
[20:03] <wettoast> but i dont like raw tuna
[20:03] <wettoast> on the bbq, nothing beats sea bass :)
[20:04] * Yashy has chinook salmon in his freezer from Lake Ontario
[20:06] <wettoast> euuu, poluted fish :P
[20:06] <wettoast> i have some smoked atlantic salmon
[20:06] <wettoast> next to raw, thats the one i like most
[20:07] <Yashy> I also have maple glazed pacific salmon from when I was last on the West coas
[20:08] <wettoast> i love seafood period, too bad its full of mercury and cholesterol (shrimp
[20:08] <Yashy> yeah, I've eaten a shrimp ring on my own, a few times.
[20:08] <wettoast> shrimp pasta alfredo, one of my fav's
[20:09] * Yashy misses pondarosa and all you can eat shrimp nights :)
[20:09] <wettoast> full of carbs, fat, and cholesterol :P
[20:09] <Yashy> lol ahh yeah!
[20:09] <Yashy> http://www.steakandsalad.com/ wow, they still exist on the East coast
[20:09] <Yashy> I wonder why they're not in ON anymore
[20:10] <wettoast> dont know, for steak i go to the keg
[20:11] <Yashy> Up here we have the keg manor.. it's technically a keg, but in an old histori
[20:12] <wettoast> but i rarely go there, prefer to buy some quality meat and put it on the b
[20:12] <Yashy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maplelawn_Garden
[20:12] <wettoast> but if im going out, and its steak, then thats where i go
[20:12] <Yashy> I BBQ steak religiously
[20:12] <Yashy> I don't usually go to chains for steak.. Ottawa has some good steak houses
[20:13] <wettoast> cool
[20:13] <wettoast> i remember montreal had a lot of nice little places to eat
[20:13] <wettoast> more european like...
[20:13] <wettoast> no mcdonalds
[20:14] <Yashy> I remember a harveys in Old port Montreal that serves beer on tap :)
[20:14] <wettoast> hah
[20:14] <Yashy> now that's a fats food restaurant
[20:14] <wettoast> that cant be, its a chain
[20:14] <Yashy> it was so busy that day, we finished our beer by the time we got to the cash
[20:14] <Yashy> welp, it does/did
[20:15] <Yashy> Mil or kneer0w should be able to verify it still does
[20:15] <wettoast> i belive you
[20:15] <wettoast> i remember being europe at age of 9, and buying a bottle of vodka :P
[20:15] <Yashy> deeper into QC they're pretty liberal with drinking age as well
[20:16] <Yashy> ON is pretty anal about it.. probably what drives more kids to rebel and try
[20:16] <wettoast> i dont like the whole idea of lcbo, everyone should be able to sell it...
[20:17] <Yashy> yeah, privatization in QC still goes through the SAQ for their cut, just wide
[20:17] <wettoast> probably, when will the government learn prohibition doesnt work...
[20:17] <Yashy> LCBO is the single largest purchaser of alcohol in the world
[20:17] <wettoast> and the taxes...
[20:17] <wettoast> way too high
[20:17] <Yashy> it's like the Walmart of booze.. so they're not to anxious to give that up.
[20:18] <SvX> whats the difference between extortion and blackmale?
[20:18] <Yashy> the later has a typo, the former doesn't.
[20:18] <wettoast> one is a request for something, the other is a nigger.
[20:19] * Disconnected
[20:19] * Attempting to rejoin channel #unixhelp
[20:19] * Rejoined channel #unixhelp
[20:19] * Topic is 'Chuck Norris doesn't wear Superman pajamas. Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas
[20:19] * Set by eucalre!manek@66.9.27.148 on Fri Apr 14 16:25:42
[20:21] <wettoast> so the moral is, make your own booze :P
[20:21] <wettoast> too bad its not very realisti to grow your own meat, heh.
[20:22] <Yashy> I have cider and beer fermenting in my house right now.. debating trying to m
[20:23] <Yashy> Not allowed to grow my own meat in the city
[20:23] <wettoast> does it taste any good when its ready?
[20:23] <Yashy> I applied to have a (pet) vietnamese potbelly pig and was refused
[20:23] <Yashy> Does what taste good when ready?
[20:23] <wettoast> the booze
[20:23] <Yashy> of course
[20:23] <Yashy> You can make the beer exactly how you like it to taste once you get some expe
[20:24] <wettoast> never trie dit myself, but i remember my grandfather doing it
[20:24] <wettoast> some sort of fruit based booze...
[20:24] <Yashy> There are 3 levels of homebrewer.. kit brewer, extract, and all-grain. the AG
[20:24] <wettoast> in this big glass baloon
[20:24] <Yashy> fruit-based is likely either a mead, or a cyser.. most likely a mead.
[20:25] <Yashy> did it take like +1 year to ferment?
[20:25] <wettoast> not sure, it was back in poland when i was 8 years old, i think he used bl
[20:25] <Yashy> very easy to try kit brewing
[20:26] <Yashy> http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Brewing-Basics
[20:27] <wettoast> looks complicated, maybe one day when i have the time/resources...
[20:30] <Yashy> it's really not hard to do kit brewing.. $100 and you could be making your fi
[20:30] <Yashy> takes like 15 minutes work to pitch.. mostly just a waiting game for kits
[20:30] <Yashy> only time consuming part is when it's ready.. if you're bottling or kegging..
[20:31] <Yashy> just find someone that sells homebrew kits in your area
[20:31] <lizsac> yeah
[20:31] <lizsac> i want to make some jalepeno pale ale
[20:32] * Yashy has an IPA fermenting right now :)
[20:32] <wettoast> and what makes it an IPA?
[20:32] <Yashy> there are style guides for all the types of beer
[20:33] <Yashy> you don't have to follow them, unless you want to
[20:33] <wettoast> right, i supose you can get creative and make your own
[20:33] <Yashy> http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/index.php?page=2002050218551188
[20:33] <Yashy> I know a guy that used cheerios in his beer before
[20:33] <Yashy> I know a few guys who have added a green herb to their beer
[20:34] <wettoast> a green herb called marijuana?
[20:34] <wettoast> that would make for some interesting beer
[20:34] <Yashy> http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/styleguide07.html here's the BJCP style
[20:35] <Yashy> yup
[20:35] <Yashy> https://secure.neap.net/mailman/listinfo/brewers high traffic.. like really h
[20:36] <Yashy> from beginners to pros alike
[20:36] <Yashy> lizsac: wouldn't the jalepeno really dominate the taste? you'd have to use ju
[20:37] <Yashy> wettoast: I know a guy that has one fermenting right now with maple syrup add
[20:39] <wettoast> i dont like beer thats too bitter, like guiness
[20:39] <wettoast> sounds tasty
[20:39] <Yashy> You can make it taste however you're like
[20:40] <Yashy> maybe try a wit (like Hoegaarden)
[20:40] <Yashy> nice summer beer
[20:40] <wettoast> have you ever tried Hoegaarden?
[20:40] <wettoast> lol
[20:40] <wettoast> yeah, nice summer beer
[20:40] <Yashy> yup
[20:40] <kneer0w> hoegaarden is garbage.
[20:40] <wettoast> doesnt even taste like beer
[20:40] <wettoast> but its very refreshing in the summer
[20:40] <Yashy> it's a style called wit
[20:40] <wettoast> its an Ale :P
[20:40] <kneer0w> i just saw the word and suddenly i typed that :O
[20:41] <wettoast> i love it
[20:41] <Yashy> homebrewers like to throw it in the category we call "lawnmower beers".. no r
[20:41] <wettoast> yup, refreshing taste...
[20:41] <wettoast> fro tasty beers, i like some of the polish beers
[20:41] <Yashy> You might find it interesting.. Keiths(.ca) is not actually an IPA, even thou
[20:42] <wettoast> keiths and heineken is also good...
[20:42] <Yashy> <shudder>
[20:42] <wettoast> Hoegaarden: "Top fermented white beer spiced with coriander and curacao or
[20:42] <Yashy> the disadvantage of making your own beer, is you will learn what crap most me
[20:43] <wettoast> have you tried Zywiec or Okicim?
[20:44] <wettoast> err, Okocim.
[20:44] <Yashy> yup
[20:44] <Yashy> Okocim regular and strong at that
[20:44] <Yashy> DOubt there's a beer you can get in ON I haven't tried
[20:45] <Yashy> That's why I like when kneer0w visits :)
[20:45] <wettoast> used to drink moosehead a while ago too
[20:47] <Yashy> I usually have a keg of megaswill on tap.. for most company. And then only of
[20:49] <wettoast> i should visit you when im in the area then :P
[20:50] <Yashy> find out tomorrow if we're moving to the West coast by the summer
[20:51] <Yashy> but for sure let me know if you're ever in the area
[20:51] <wettoast> well, i dont quite live in the west coast
[20:51] <wettoast> how weast, like BC?
[20:51] <Yashy> I meant here, while I'm here
[20:51] <Yashy> yup.. the Island
[20:52] <wettoast> what makes you want to mover there? other than the beautiful scenery...
[20:52] <Yashy> been to the puck'n'ball lately? :)
[20:52] <wettoast> and lots and lots of rain
[20:52] <wettoast> uhm.. like 3 years ago maybe
[20:52] <Yashy> doesn't rain on the island as much as inland
[20:52] <Yashy> the SO might get a job out there
[20:52] <wettoast> i see
[20:53] <wettoast> alwasy wanted to visit the far east and west...
[20:53] <Yashy> thought.. while I'm not working, why not move to where houses are 2x more exp
[20:53] <wettoast> most east ive been was monstreal, most west was calagary.
[20:53] <roycroft> where do you live on the island, yashy?
[20:53] <Yashy> East coast trip is highly recommended.. it's really nice out there. NFLD is t
[20:54] <Yashy> roycroft: I'm in Ottawa right now.. find out tomorrow if we move to Victoria.
[20:54] <roycroft> oh
[20:54] <roycroft> victoria is cool
[20:54] <Yashy> yeah it's great there
[20:54] <roycroft> i'm not sure about living there
[20:54] <escapepod> where do you guys get news about unix from ... magazines, websites? whic
[20:54] <roycroft> but it's an awesome place to visit
[20:54] <Yashy> escapepod: what type of news?
[20:55] <wettoast> yeah,d efinately want go out for some sushi in BC :)
[20:55] <Yashy> Vancouver has gret sushi places.. I didn't see many in Victoria
[20:55] <escapepod> all types of news. business, technical, etc
[20:55] <wettoast> although Toronto has a plethora of great resteurants...
[20:55] <Yashy> like 3 brewpubs in Victoria though.. which just might kill me.
[20:56] * Yashy wonders if roycroft has been to the Swan
[20:56] <roycroft> i haven't been to the swan
[20:56] <Yashy> or spinnakers perhaps
[20:56] <Yashy> I forget the name of the other one
[20:56] <roycroft> i really haven't gone drinking in victoria
[20:56] <Yashy> You're the first person I know who has been to Victoria and not to the Swan.
[20:56] <SvX> do you guys think people are born gay? or its a choice?
[20:57] <Yashy> it's also a hotel and nice restaurant
[20:57] <SvX> it was on abc a min ago
[20:57] <roycroft> svx: there are both environmental and organic factors involved
[20:57] <escapepod> in the womb you choose, and then you're born that way
[20:57] <Yashy> escapepod: I dunno.. the technical stuff can be found on the sites/lists of y
[20:57] <SvX> there is scientific proof for physical factors?
[20:58] <zibo> physics ?
[20:58] <SvX> higher female testosterone? that makes you mentally like men more?
[20:58] <roycroft> there's a lot of evidence for organic causes
[20:58] <roycroft> but no "proof"
[20:58] <escapepod> is there scientific proof for heterosexuality?
[20:58] <roycroft> there is very little proof of anything in biology
[20:58] <zibo> from what u have read
[20:58] <SvX> organic you mean scientific experiments and conclusion of the human body?
[20:58] <zibo> homosexuality is an error in DNA
[20:58] <wettoast> actually, there is proof of homosexuality in some animals
[20:59] <roycroft> it's not that it's an inexact science - it's a very complex science
[20:59] <SvX> so you think people can't help being gay. its just something chemical, maybe la
[20:59] <roycroft> but one thing is for almost certain - rarely are develoupmental and behavi
[21:00] <wettoast> hah, and yesm they wer emonkeys
[21:00] <wettoast> how well timed of you Yashy
[21:00] <SvX> this christian says being gay is a sin, people choose to be gay. they aren't bo
[21:00] <zibo> they are
[21:00] <wettoast> being non christian is a sin
[21:00] <zibo> wel
[21:00] <roycroft> and the christian's credentials are ..... ?
[21:01] <wettoast> fuck religion
[21:01] <zibo> from what i have read, homosexuality is an error in DNA
[21:01] <wettoast> be a good person
[21:01] <SvX> most dna errors are shown physically with a baby having both parts developed. t
[21:01] <wettoast> Yashy: Where is my ops? :P
[21:01] <escapepod> so where does everyone get their news? I go to bsdnews.com, the unix guar
[21:02] <roycroft> i get my news on irc
[21:02] * Yashy points
[21:02] <SvX> but if your physically alll man, and you are gay, it would have to be chemical
[21:02] <wettoast> escapepod: mailing list of particular OS.
[21:02] <roycroft> it's more reliable than the mainstream media
[21:02] <Mouring> The undercity times.
[21:02] <roycroft> i'll tell you a secret, svx
[21:02] <roycroft> but promise not to tell anybody
[21:02] <SvX> psh its in the channel
[21:02] <Yashy> Why do people thing Windows is a better OS? Were they born that way?
[21:03] <roycroft> i know exactly what determines whether a guy is gay or straight
[21:03] <Yashy> think too
[21:03] <roycroft> it all has to do with the shape of the ear canal
[21:03] <zibo> they dont know better
[21:03] <zibo> they assume it is since its more popular
[21:03] <SvX> Yashy I really don't know much about bsd
[21:03] <roycroft> if the ear canal is shaped just right barbara streisand's voice sounds lik
[21:03] <escapepod> what's the undercity times?
[21:03] <CCFL_Man> once i saw unix i realised that it was the only way to do computing
[21:03] <roycroft> and that's the thing that all gay men have in common
[21:03] <escapepod> heh
[21:03] <roycroft> but if it's not shaped in that particular way her voice is extremely irrit
[21:04] <SvX> freebsd just seems limitting sometimes. I don't think my tv tuner and soundcard
[21:04] * roycroft is about ready to wash his hands of freebsd
[21:04] * Yashy is glad roycroft will finally wash his hands
[21:04] <wettoast> SvX: fbsd support all the popular sound cards, and tv cards...
[21:05] * Yashy whispers a manicure wouldn't hurt anyone either
[21:05] <roycroft> that's because freebsd is trying to be the next redhat
[21:05] <Yashy> SvX: what tv tuner and soundcard?
[21:05] <wettoast> butits not
[21:05] <SvX> and my first impression of unix wasn't the best. I bought a unix shell and shh'
[21:05] <wettoast> but i fyou want a desktop/multimedia os, use linux
[21:05] <roycroft> or os x
[21:05] <roycroft> the one that really works
[21:05] <SvX> well my soundcard is an RME. its for proaudio
[21:05] <Yashy> speaking of RH.. I installed it recently on a dell for a new computer user. T
[21:05] <wettoast> SvX: unix is cli.
[21:06] <roycroft> unix is a kernel
[21:06] <SvX> cli?
[21:06] <Mouring> unix was an enviromet.. the kernel came later.
[21:06] <Yashy> first came the egg
[21:06] <roycroft> unix was originally a file loader
[21:06] <wettoast> SvX: command line interface.
[21:06] <CCFL_Man> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9715637174 <---i got
[21:06] <CCFL_Man> anyone got access to CCO or have the SIP firmware for this bad boy?
[21:07] <SvX> how can osx have a unix kernal? it uses different hardware. isn't the unix kern
[21:07] <roycroft> the os x kernel is actually mach
[21:07] <wettoast> heh...
[21:07] <Yashy> I just sold a fake phone on ebay with no feedback ever and someone actually p
[21:07] <wettoast> SvX: no.
[21:07] <CCFL_Man> unix kernel is portable, thats what's so beautiful about it
[21:07] <roycroft> and the whole reason that unix was written in the first place was to make
[21:08] <escapepod> has anyone run osx in a ppc emulator running on x86? has it worked?
[21:08] <CCFL_Man> Yashy: bastard
[21:08] <SvX> command line interface?
[21:08] <roycroft> why bother?
[21:08] <escapepod> pearpc says it will be painfully slow. what about qemu?
[21:08] <roycroft> os x runs natively on x86
[21:08] <SvX> roycroft just recently now right?
[21:08] <roycroft> from day one
[21:08] <roycroft> but only recently was it released outside of apple
[21:08] * Yashy puts up a bridge for sale and sends the URL to CCFL_Man :)
[21:08] <escapepod> roycroft, so i can install it on my dell pc then?
[21:08] <roycroft> no
[21:09] <roycroft> 1. that would be a license violation
[21:09] <roycroft> 2. apple check to make sure that you're running on their hardware
[21:09] <roycroft> but you can certainly run opendarwin on your dell
[21:09] <roycroft> which is the kernel that os x uses
[21:09] <escapepod> who wants to run opendarwin. i want to run osx and aqua
[21:09] <roycroft> then buy a mac
[21:09] <Mouring> uses a non-apple ported kernel.
[21:09] <roycroft> that's the only legal way to do it
[21:10] <SvX> I'm taking computer science and we were studying different levels of abstration
[21:10] <escapepod> i'm not terribly interested in the legal aspect of it
[21:10] <CCFL_Man> Yashy: you have CCO access?
[21:10] <Mouring> C++ is still pretty close to the machine.
[21:10] <Yashy> CCFL_Man: nope :/
[21:10] <roycroft> i'm not terribly interested in talking to would-be felons
[21:10] <Mouring> You want something FAR FAR away look to perl/ocaml/etc.
[21:10] <roycroft> so i'm sorry, my conversation with you is over
[21:10] <Yashy> lol
[21:10] <CCFL_Man> Yashy: damn
[21:10] <escapepod> i'm more interested in my original question. there are powerpc emulators
[21:11] <Mouring> C++ .. Portable Assembly with badly designed OO attached.
[21:11] <SvX> I thought apple released an os for x86 hardware
[21:11] <wettoast> SvX: So whats your question?
[21:11] * Yashy wonders how many laws roycroft has broken in the past week
[21:11] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: $100 for sip firmware from cisco is too much for a peon like me
[21:11] <roycroft> c++ is the perl of object-oriented languages
[21:11] <roycroft> we were just discussing this earlier today
[21:12] <SvX> and if apple did release osx for x86 then the would have to rewrite the whole o
[21:12] <roycroft> ccfl_man: $1500 is too much for a peon like me to pay for that hdtv i want
[21:12] <roycroft> does that mean i can steal it?
[21:12] <SvX> c++ is nice. you can make programs for any os with it. its architecture indepen
[21:12] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: i'm talking software
[21:12] <Mouring> Buzzz.. wrong
[21:12] <Mouring> C++ has the same flaws as C at the lowest programming level.
[21:12] <wettoast> SvX: c and c++ are meant to be protable, i fyou write your code correctly.
[21:12] <roycroft> so you don't believe in intellectual property?
[21:13] <wettoast> roycroft: php is more of a object oriented language like perl than c++ is.
[21:13] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: i believe cisco should give users a break when they use it for t
[21:13] <roycroft> you're avoiding the question
[21:13] <Mouring> you still have to worry about different platforms with different size int32
[21:14] <roycroft> if you believe in intellectual property then you have to concede that it's
[21:14] <CCFL_Man> SvX: the only two languages that are useful and worth your time is asm and
[21:15] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: ok dammit i'll buy the firmware
[21:15] <roycroft> your other choice is to not use it
[21:15] <SvX> asm is a low level programming language. almost exactly like machine code
[21:15] <roycroft> that's how a free market works
[21:15] <roycroft> it's all about supply and demand
[21:15] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: you republican?
[21:15] <roycroft> the farthest thing from a republican that you can possibly imagine
[21:16] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: good
[21:16] <Mouring> if he is.. he is one of those self-hating repulicans. =-)
[21:16] <SvX> so how exactly do you write a program in C for unix, and then get that program
[21:16] <roycroft> "unix" and "xp" are not machines
[21:16] <roycroft> they are operating systems
[21:16] <SvX> yeah
[21:16] <roycroft> you have some fundamental flaws in your thinking, svx
[21:16] <SvX> they are differnet os's
[21:16] <roycroft> you have much to learn
[21:16] <CCFL_Man> SvX: with mingw compiling on win32 or gcc co,piling on unix
[21:17] <SvX> I'll get back to you after reviewing my CS book :-P
[21:17] <SvX> do you guys know psuedo code?
[21:17] <roycroft> think of an os as your interface to the machine
[21:17] <wettoast-> SvX: write in ansi C, it should compile on all platforms...
[21:18] <SvX> cool
[21:18] <Mouring> psuedo code is just a bullshit language you make up to prototype.
[21:18] <roycroft> IF one uses only the standard libc
[21:18] <SvX> so it would make an exe for for xp. and then some executable file for osx?
[21:18] <Mouring> everyone has done it at some point.. my version is a perlish, pascalish, Ci
[21:18] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: my PAP2 ATA works terribly, after a month uptime the audio crack
[21:18] <Mouring> Just whatever comes to mind first.
[21:18] <wettoast-> SvX: or use high level languages such as perl or php, it all depends on t
[21:18] <SvX> Mouring I thought it was a bullshit language. we had a test on it a couple week
[21:18] <wettoast-> the higher level the language is, the more portable it is
[21:19] <SvX> what about xml? it seems bullshit too. you just make up your tags and put what
[21:19] <Mouring> XML is useful. When applied with XSLT
[21:19] <Mouring> and a bit of CSS code.
[21:19] <SvX> <cars> benz, honda </cars>
[21:19] <SvX> thats basically xml
[21:19] <wettoast-> xml isnt really a language, more of a unified data format
[21:19] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: but before that 30 days of uptime it works great, but not the wa
[21:19] <SvX> make up your tag and put what you want in them
[21:20] <CCFL_Man> xml can be used on the cisco 7912 ip phone
[21:20] <roycroft> ccfl_man: i'm not saying i agree with cisco's licensing requirements for t
[21:20] <roycroft> all i'm saying is that the code belongs to them and they get to dictate th
[21:20] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: good, i'll buy it if i have to, it's well worth the money
[21:20] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: i know, i agree with that too
[21:20] <roycroft> i have high ethical standards
[21:21] <roycroft> i like to be able to sleep at night
[21:21] <CCFL_Man> a cisco 7912 with SIP firmware is pure bliss
[21:21] <roycroft> i don't believe that if someone wrongs me that justifies my wronging them
[21:21] <SvX> cisco ip phone?
[21:21] <CCFL_Man> just pure bliss
[21:21] <roycroft> i like to take the higher moral ground
[21:21] <wettoast-> roycroft: unfortunately a lot of people can sleep regardless of what they
[21:21] <roycroft> i can't
[21:21] <escapepod> it's not wronging them if they wronged you first
[21:21] <wettoast-> thast good to hear...
[21:22] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: with cisco, i do my best to get them what they deserve
[21:22] * roycroft has already stated that he has no desire to speak with the felon-wanna-be
[21:22] <SvX> if I wanted to change my grades from the website that has them posted, couldn't
[21:22] <Mouring> escapepod, so it is ok to do evil if they do evil to you first? Typical id
[21:22] * wettoast- is now known as wettoast
[21:23] * escapepod isn't sure what roycroft is doing on irc if he doesn't want to talk to would be
[21:23] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: i am perfectly legal
[21:23] <roycroft> and folks claim i'm jaded :)
[21:23] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: well, ok, i did steal some DS1 cables they were going to throw a
[21:23] <wettoast> im a moral person, doesnt mean im always legal...
[21:23] <CCFL_Man> but thats it!
[21:24] <SvX> can't you download the source of a whole website?
[21:24] <CCFL_Man> i have high morals infact
[21:24] <SvX> there was a program I remember that could do it
[21:24] <escapepod> mouring, as i stated earlier ... what would've been evil is now good. it'
[21:24] <Mouring> wet, you were illegal when you were under 16 =P
[21:24] <roycroft> ccfl_man: i'm not trying to scrutinise your every action
[21:24] <roycroft> none of us are perfect
[21:24] <wettoast> heh..
[21:24] <roycroft> i aspire to high standards and i do a good job of maintaining them
[21:24] <roycroft> but i'm human, as are we all
[21:25] <wettoast> not all
[21:25] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: if it was $50 i really wouldn't care, but $100 for SIP firmware
[21:25] <wettoast> Mouring is feline, Battosai is monkey
[21:25] <roycroft> i understand
[21:25] <SvX> you know how you can ssh to your unix shell? could you ever ssh into xp? and wo
[21:25] <roycroft> but what has that to do with cisco?
[21:25] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: but i believe at $100 it's worth every penny
[21:26] <Mouring> vshell lets you ssh into a windows box.
[21:26] <wettoast> is that fantasy perspective, i guess im a dog.
[21:26] <roycroft> it's kind of like saying "well, the price of fuel has gone up so i'll just
[21:26] <SvX> ssh into a computer is almost like remote desktop no? the window is basically t
[21:26] <roycroft> and i'm not getting on your case, ccfl_man
[21:26] <roycroft> i'm making a point
[21:26] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: but i'm just borrowing the fdirmware :P
[21:26] <roycroft> unfortunately your situation is the example
[21:27] <SvX> like when you ssh with putty your seeing the box's monitor/screen basically rig
[21:27] <roycroft> no, you're not
[21:27] <wettoast> SvX: sure, one is a graphical interface, the other is command line (text)
[21:27] <Mouring> svx, o you get a commadline
[21:27] <SvX> thats how remote desktop is with xp. your seeing exactly whats on the screen of
[21:27] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: ok, i'm pirating it, yes
[21:27] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: it'
[21:28] <Mouring> svx, not really because your XP desktop is disabled when you login.
[21:28] <roycroft> ccfl_man: do what your own conscience dictates
[21:28] <SvX> you know what I mean
[21:28] <Mouring> remote desktop is a cut down version of terminal services.
[21:28] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: i'd feel a little guilty with cisco because they make good stuff
[21:28] <wettoast> ok, so you dont get the true multiused experience with windows xp
[21:28] <SvX> the remote desktop window is like the screen of the other computer
[21:28] <SvX> thats pretty cool
[21:28] <roycroft> see, i don't differentiate
[21:28] <wettoast> err, multi user.
[21:28] <SvX> but isn't that how ssh is too? when you login the putty window is the screen of
[21:29] <wettoast> SvX: you can do that with X on unix too. And its true multiuser.
[21:29] <roycroft> i don't think it's ok to steal from m$ just because their stuff is crap or
[21:29] <roycroft> if you have an issue with m$ the solution is to not use their stuff
[21:29] <roycroft> not to steal it
[21:29] <SvX> I hae so much to learn
[21:29] <roycroft> but to just not use it
[21:29] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: billy bob gates is making more money than me selling an inferior
[21:29] <SvX> do you guys think you have lots of stuff you know about computers? I wonder if
[21:29] <Mouring> so two wrongs make a right?
[21:30] <roycroft> what relevance is there to that when it comes to using their product?
[21:30] <wettoast> SvX: no one knows everything.
[21:30] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: i'd go completely solaris if the software i use wasn't only for
[21:30] <Mouring> find a standard.. if it's wrong to steal cable.. it's wrong to steal anythi
[21:30] <roycroft> that's like saying "hmm, mercedes make great cars so if i want a mercedes
[21:30] <CCFL_Man> Mouring: it was going to be thrown away, so thats not really stealing
[21:30] <wettoast> tv, blah.. they fucking rape you. You pay for it and they make you watch c
[21:31] <zibo> it would take decades to know everything from today -> past, but technology
[21:31] <CCFL_Man> SvX: you are doing windows programming, aren't you?
[21:32] <roycroft> and i shall state for the record that i have microsoft windows 98, 2000, a
[21:32] <Mouring> CCFL, I was refering to your.. "Cisco vs MS comment."
[21:32] <CCFL_Man> roycroft: dammit, i'll just buy the firmware and go without eating for a w
[21:32] <roycroft> and i have original media and a legitimate license for all
[21:32] <roycroft> i also have m$ office mac
[21:32] <roycroft> and a license for that
[21:32] <CCFL_Man> Mouring: and you are 100% right
[21:33] <roycroft> excel is actually a useful piece of software
[21:33] <roycroft> the rest of office is irrelevant
[21:33] <CCFL_Man> it is, win2k is too
[21:33] <roycroft> and i have the windows distributions because i have to support windows use
[21:33] <wettoast> roycroft: thats what it comes down to, if its useful to you, pay for it...
[21:33] <roycroft> i was able to expense all the stuff
[21:33] <CCFL_Man> did you pay for them out of your own pocket?
[21:34] <roycroft> but nevertheless
[21:34] <roycroft> i need it so i pay for it
[21:34] <roycroft> yes
[21:34] <roycroft> but even if i didn't that does not matter
[21:34] <CCFL_Man> your own money that you earn?
[21:34] <roycroft> what matters is that the stuff is legitimately licensede
[21:34] <SvX> nope
[21:34] <roycroft> licensed
[21:34] <wettoast> even if its a gigantic evil empire company...
[21:34] <SvX> just taking intro to computer science at Georgia State University
[21:34] <roycroft> wettoast: if you feel strongly enough about the evil empire company you bo
[21:34] <roycroft> you don't steal from them
[21:35] <roycroft> i will not shop at wal*mart
[21:35] <roycroft> no matter what, i will not give them one cent of my money
[21:35] <wettoast> it does no good, market share speaks louder...
[21:35] <CCFL_Man> SvX: if unix won't be your main study, drop it and do EE
[21:35] <zibo> wall mart is bad ?
[21:35] <roycroft> i don't think m$ are an evil company
[21:35] <SvX> EE
[21:35] <wettoast> zibo: it is in canada...
[21:35] <roycroft> i think they put out crap product
[21:35] <zibo> i see
[21:36] <SvX> well with intro to computer science you cover just the basics. booleom, flip fl
[21:36] <roycroft> the bill gates foundation gives millions of dollars per year to very worth
[21:36] <roycroft> er
[21:36] <roycroft> the bill and melinda gates foundation
[21:36] <roycroft> sorry
[21:36] <SvX> people can most in any direction from this class. some are going into embedded
[21:36] <wettoast> roycroft: please, when you make billions, charity foundations make for gre
[21:36] <CCFL_Man> if you had a chance to financially pwn bush and not get in trouble for it,
[21:36] <roycroft> and there are good charities and bad charities
[21:37] <belter> gates can eat a big one, while i pirate his os, and sell 4 copies a day to e
[21:37] <CCFL_Man> SvX: ahh, e,mbedded systems are really cool, i'd suggest that with some un
[21:38] <roycroft> if you make money supporting his software then why do you feel you need to
[21:38] <SvX> is it true that billgates just baught dos for a really cheap price?
[21:38] <CCFL_Man> 50k i hear
[21:38] <roycroft> would it not make sense to sell it legitimately and then make your money s
[21:38] <wettoast> actually, i dont make any money off of windows
[21:38] <roycroft> i was addressing belter
[21:38] <wettoast> most of the money i make from is based on freebsd
[21:38] <SvX> and that the os he dropped out to make, he didn't even use. he marketed the OS
[21:38] <CCFL_Man> freebsd is sweet
[21:39] <roycroft> no, svx
[21:39] <wettoast> windows is just something i use for a desktop os.
[21:39] <roycroft> gates wrote msdos
[21:39] <belter> wintendo
[21:39] <zibo> wii
[21:39] <roycroft> what happened was when ibm came out with the personal computer in 1982 the
[21:39] <CCFL_Man> he purchased dos from a seattle computer company and modified it
[21:40] <CCFL_Man> drdos, yea
[21:40] <roycroft> it was a nice, sunny day and the digital research folks decided to go fly
[21:40] <roycroft> so ibm called gates, and he ended up getting the deal
[21:40] <wettoast> i could very well survive using ubuntu. So Bill should thank me for using
[21:41] <roycroft> it's in m$'s interest to keep windows as widely-deployed as possible
[21:41] <roycroft> so they don't bother going after the small pirates
[21:41] <wettoast> MS realizes that a Windows user is a good user, regardless if its pirated
[21:41] <roycroft> it's the big fish they're after
[21:41] <wettoast> what big fish?
[21:41] <CCFL_Man> the big latina ass?
[21:41] <roycroft> corporations that buy one copy of windows and install it on 500 machines
[21:42] <roycroft> asian countries that pirate tens of thousands of copies
[21:42] <roycroft> those kinds of big fish
[21:42] <zibo> china
[21:42] <wettoast> maybe so, i've never worked for such...
[21:42] <belter> i bought a legit copy of win 95a long ago, and that bastard still owes me fo
[21:42] <CCFL_Man> they pirate everything though
[21:42] <Inge-> Anyone remember theboot-diskette (or boot-cd) that has a linux install and ut
[21:42] <wettoast> hah, asia has no copyright laws
[21:42] <Yashy> or South America
[21:43] <zibo> Inge, if you reformat your drive 10 times data can still be obtained
[21:43] <roycroft> actually the chinese leader just met with gates last week and signed an ag
[21:43] <roycroft> if you reformat your drive 100000000 times data can still be obtained
[21:43] <CCFL_Man> Inge-: just zero out the drive, it'll be secure after that
[21:43] <wettoast> roycroft: meaning, bill payed him off enough to make that happen
[21:43] <wettoast> it all comes down to money, always...
[21:43] <Inge-> bah
[21:43] <roycroft> the only way to make it totally, completely, irrevocably unreadable is to
[21:44] <CCFL_Man> microshat should have stuck with xenix
[21:44] <roycroft> actually, i'm sure what happened was that bill cut a deal to discount the
[21:44] <Inge-> roycroft: I don't have anything *that interesting on it. just want it unobtai
[21:44] <roycroft> there was nothing wrong with xenix
[21:44] <CCFL_Man> xeniz was great
[21:44] <roycroft> inge-: then write random patterns to the disk a few times
[21:44] <wettoast> roycroft: don't be naive, it's always about the $$$....
[21:45] <zibo> does ms still make stuff to it [xenix] ?
[21:45] <roycroft> m$ sold xenix to sco decades ago
[21:45] <roycroft> then they bought 40% of sco
[21:45] <zibo> ah i see
[21:45] <CCFL_Man> zeroing out the drive will write zeros everywhere and it'll be unreadable
[21:45] <wettoast> and wtf are we debating again?
[21:45] <roycroft> and no, they haven't produced any xenix applications since the early '80s
[21:46] <Mouring> why being a moral and upstanding person sucks.
[21:46] <CCFL_Man> unix is the right way to do computing, i truely believe that
[21:46] * roycroft likes the bed in which he lies
[21:46] <roycroft> unix is a wright way to do computing
[21:46] <roycroft> er
[21:46] <roycroft> right
[21:46] <CCFL_Man> good
[21:47] <roycroft> i won't say it's THE right way
[21:47] <wettoast> unfortunately right does not equal widely used...
[21:47] <roycroft> but it's a good way
[21:47] <CCFL_Man> i would say 99%
[21:47] <roycroft> it all depends on the application
[21:47] <roycroft> i wouldn't want unix running on the computer in my car
[21:47] <wettoast> why? because of economics and the powers ($$$) that be...
[21:47] <CCFL_Man> the basics of how unix worked that was used back then in the 60s are STILL
[21:48] <roycroft> there are embedded oses that are much more bulletproof
[21:48] <CCFL_Man> vxworks?
[21:48] <roycroft> i don't want some script kiddie hacking into my car computer and making my
[21:48] <wettoast> heck, unix is a great concept, that is still valid today, but power and ec
[21:49] * roycroft would love to get his hands on tenth edition unix
[21:49] <roycroft> too bad that never made it out of bell labs
[21:49] <CCFL_Man> was there a 10th edition?
[21:49] <roycroft> yes
[21:49] <CCFL_Man> sweet
[21:49] <roycroft> it's awesome
[21:49] <roycroft> i have the manuals
[21:49] <roycroft> they published them
[21:49] <roycroft> but never made the os available
[21:49] <CCFL_Man> did it have a tcp/ip stack?
[21:49] <roycroft> of course
[21:49] <roycroft> the text processing tools look incredible
[21:50] <wettoast> bsd stack no doubt :P
[21:50] <roycroft> of course
[21:50] <fugi> I want 4.2BSD on a vax.
[21:50] <roycroft> the bsd networking code was in sysv
[21:50] <zibo> wait, wasnt 7th the last unix edition ?
[21:50] <roycroft> er
[21:50] <CCFL_Man> what was the earliet version of bell labs unix that had a tcp/ip stack?
[21:50] <roycroft> sys iii
[21:50] <roycroft> no
[21:50] <roycroft> not at all
[21:50] <roycroft> 7th edition was the first one i used
[21:50] <zibo> i always tought 7th was last
[21:50] <roycroft> nope
[21:51] <zibo> which one was then ?
[21:51] <roycroft> 10th edition
[21:51] <zibo> i see
[21:51] <zibo> did you see gbaunix ?
[21:51] <zibo> some dude runs unix ver 5 on GBA
[21:51] <roycroft> 7th edition was what bill joy had at berkeley when he wrote vi and impleme
[21:51] <CCFL_Man> gbaunix made me cream my pants
[21:51] <roycroft> which was bsd 1
[21:51] <Inge-> roycroft: since the partition is NTFS I am going to use SDelete from sysinter
[21:52] <roycroft> sys iii came out after 7th edition from bell labs
[21:52] <CCFL_Man> zibo: the v5 image i found doesn't have that 1974 motd that the gbaunix sc
[21:52] <roycroft> sys v was the first really commercial version of unix
[21:52] <zibo> it said it was 5th
[21:53] <CCFL_Man> zibo: infact no versions i found on the net had any motd saying the date,
[21:53] <zibo> so you think it wasnt real ver 5 ?
[21:54] <CCFL_Man> i'm not sure
[21:54] <roycroft> the 10th edition manuals were published and may be available from used boo
[21:54] * roycroft checks
[21:54] <wettoast> all i can say is, thank the higher powers that be for BSD....
[21:54] <roycroft> plan 9 has much of the 10th edition text processing tools btw
[21:55] <CCFL_Man> i really wish someone designed a hardware PDP11 emulator that could be a l
[21:55] <spuug> Well, DEC did do that.
[21:55] <wettoast> p9 has some nice distributed conecpts, too bad they never made it mainstre
[21:55] <spuug> pdp11/03 and pdp11/04
[21:55] <roycroft> i really like plan9
[21:55] <CCFL_Man> spuug: unix won't run on those
[21:56] <roycroft> i really really really like it
[21:56] <spuug> One could probably do a pdp11/23+ in a single FPGA nowadays.
[21:56] <CCFL_Man> probably can
[21:57] <CCFL_Man> i want some actual unix console ports from a PDP11
[21:57] <Mouring> pdp11 running at 1ghz <chuckle>
[21:57] <CCFL_Man> they are just so damn big
[21:58] <roycroft> well i can't find 10th edition manuals at the common used techie bookstore
[21:58] * eucalre sighs
[21:59] <roycroft> i promise they exist, as i have a set in my office
[21:59] <eucalre> i really need to find someone who has a reasonably stable system online
[21:59] <roycroft> for what, eucalre?
[21:59] <CCFL_Man> pr0n?
[21:59] <eucalre> trying to futz with java and mysql on a pentium pro with linux is starting
[22:00] <SvX> hold up. I'm readin about bill gates. how did he become a billionaire in 6 year
[22:00] <eucalre> svx stock
[22:00] <roycroft> right place, right time
[22:00] <SvX> 1980 he bought QDos
[22:00] <SvX> 1986 he's a billionaire
[22:00] <Mouring> Hexes and Spells.
[22:00] <eucalre> i don't think he was a billionaire by 1986
[22:01] <roycroft> he well could have been
[22:01] <CCFL_Man> we have 486 sbcs at wok that we use for our machines, they run a stripped
[22:01] <roycroft> the ibm pc was phenominally popular
[22:01] <eucalre> kp even in the early 90s, MSFT was in the $5 range if i recall correctly
[22:01] * Inge- is gone. Away after 10 minutes of inactivity [Since: 04/28/06 06:02:09 CEST]
[22:01] <roycroft> phenomenally
[22:01] <CCFL_Man> hell, i even want to put on freebsd
[22:02] <eucalre> i don't remember if autoaway is kosher in here or not
[22:02] <SvX> you know why bill gates is rich? those other computer guys were good at develop
[22:02] <eucalre> svx that's why some people are engineers, some people are in business
[22:02] <wettoast> I think the real problem is that us, technology guys, have different agend
[22:02] <Mouring> No one that started Microsoft as far as I know was part of any open or free
[22:02] <roycroft> i want it all
[22:03] <eucalre> mmm, capitalism
[22:03] <roycroft> there's nothing inherentally wrong with capitalism
[22:03] <wettoast> roycroft: well then, go ahead and take it all.
[22:03] <eucalre> i know
[22:03] <roycroft> it's too bad that it's so rare
[22:03] * eucalre <3 capitalism
[22:03] <wettoast> socialism?
[22:03] <roycroft> adam smith would not even begin to recognise the us economy
[22:04] <CCFL_Man> i just want to play with the SBC
[22:04] <eucalre> the us economy is a collection of oligarchies
[22:04] <wettoast> fuck, i just want it to be like in star trek, where monetary possesion has
[22:04] <wettoast> and you can utilize your talens without worring about money
[22:05] <belter> dude you need your loabs checked
[22:05] <roycroft> do you have pointy ears too, wettoast?
[22:05] <Mouring> ermm.. startrek where everyone is happy happy and there is perfect peace at
[22:05] * roycroft passes the soma around
[22:05] <wettoast> yes, its a dream...
[22:05] <eucalre> wettoast will be the guy who wears a red shirt in the landing party
[22:05] * roycroft puts on his boots as he climbs out of bed
[22:05] <belter> 1200 rules of aquazition
[22:05] <eucalre> i'll be the guy who wears the lime green shirt
[22:06] <wettoast> Mouring: yep, happy happy and perfect sounds good to me... :)
[22:06] <roycroft> i just want some of that romulan ale
[22:06] * Mouring wanders downstairs to sleep.. I may not wor tomorrow, but I have things I want to
[22:06] <Mouring> night all.
[22:06] <wettoast> night..
[22:06] <SvX> but you have to admit. most of the computer software/programming community do a
[22:06] <eucalre> night kitty
[22:06] <eucalre> not most
[22:07] <SvX> why do so many people invest into open source stuff?
[22:07] <eucalre> a fairly small fraction of the software community
[22:07] <wettoast> good question...
[22:07] <SvX> not everyone is about money mony money
[22:07] <roycroft> no, i don't admit that, svx
[22:07] <roycroft> i'll concede that many programmers are involved in opensource projects
[22:07] <SvX> for a lot of people programming is fun I guess
[22:07] <wettoast> youll concede?
[22:07] <roycroft> but i don't think the majority do by any means
[22:07] <eucalre> svx the open source community is a fraction of the software development lab
[22:08] <wettoast> its reality
[22:08] <lizsac> it's bs
[22:08] <SvX> eucalre yeah everyone wants money money money
[22:08] <wettoast> i dont know, it seems like the opposite
[22:09] <wettoast> there are only a few major commercial products in each field, seems like t
[22:09] <roycroft> that's because you're involved with opensource communities
[22:09] <SvX> remember that programming didn't come about because university students want to
[22:09] <SvX> to share knowledge
[22:09] * roycroft waits for the channel to join the world of reality
[22:09] <eucalre> SvX how many other industries do you know of, where people donate thousands
[22:09] * roycroft wisely does not hold his breath while waiting
[22:10] <SvX> huh cvs?
[22:10] <SvX> the drug store?
[22:10] <eucalre> nevermind
[22:10] <zibo> haha
[22:10] <roycroft> s/database/repository/
[22:10] <eucalre> so kp how's that grill
[22:10] <kneer0w> you're all being trolled
[22:10] <kneer0w> and i'm going to bed
[22:10] <kneer0w> night
[22:10] <roycroft> dinner was great!
[22:10] <roycroft> i had some really yummy wild sockeye salmon tonight
[22:10] <eucalre> i'm thinking of firing up the grill this weekend too
[22:10] <SvX> I have a confession
[22:10] <roycroft> smoked with alder chips
[22:10] <wettoast> roycroft: What reality? I think we already defined it...
[22:11] <SvX> I'm deaf. I can't hear at all. thats why I'm on irc a lot
[22:11] <wettoast> Sure the commercial software dominates in some areas
[22:11] <SvX> its the only time I can communicate with people
[22:11] <roycroft> i have a secret
[22:11] <eucalre> i don't care
[22:11] <kneer0w> troll!
[22:11] <roycroft> when i grill seafood i also cut lemons in half and grill them
[22:11] <wettoast> but but the opensource stuff has a lot of areas it can be comeptitive and
[22:11] <roycroft> the lemon juice on the fish tastes fantastic when they've been grilled fir
[22:11] <eucalre> hrmm, will have to try that
[22:12] <roycroft> that's my opensource grill contribution :)
[22:12] <eucalre> the problem i have with grilled seafood, is it sticks to the grill too easi
[22:12] <roycroft> olive oil helps with that
[22:12] <Inge-> tty sane
[22:12] <wettoast> roycroft: yes, i also put slices of lemon on salmon when i cook it, but wh
[22:12] <roycroft> and you can always get one of those seafood grill baskets
[22:12] <eucalre> sea scallops are so grub
[22:12] <wettoast> eucalre: yeah, il it first..
[22:12] <wettoast> err, oil.
[22:13] <roycroft> i grilled prawn and scallop kebobs the other night
[22:13] <wettoast> are we suddenly switching the topic to the finer points at a bbq?
[22:13] <eucalre> yes
[22:13] <eucalre> OSS got boring
[22:13] <wettoast> sounds good to me :)
[22:13] <roycroft> it's a less contentious one than what we've been discussion
[22:13] <roycroft> discussing
[22:13] <eucalre> i really love grilled lamb kebabs
[22:14] <eucalre> the arab district in london knows how to make them
[22:14] <wettoast> i take once slice of a sea bass, wrap it in toin foil with baby sea scallo
[22:14] <roycroft> so far this week i grilled on sunday, monday, tuesday, and thursday
[22:14] <wettoast> its mouth wattering :)
[22:14] <eucalre> 22:14:33 up -24855 days, -3:-14, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
[22:14] <roycroft> i had dinner with friends on wednesday
[22:14] <eucalre> i really need to figure out what makes this box do that
[22:14] <roycroft> cool
[22:14] <roycroft> the machine that has not yet been booted
[22:15] <roycroft> you're a really early adopter of that os, eucalre
[22:15] <eucalre> apparently
[22:15] <wettoast> roycroft: stfu, its about bbq now....
[22:15] <roycroft> i do foil grilling a lot
[22:15] <wettoast> :P
[22:15] <eucalre> bbq ribs?
[22:15] <roycroft> recently i've really been into alder smoked stuff though
[22:16] <wettoast> id love to get a smoker, anyone own one of those?
[22:16] <roycroft> i don't have one
[22:16] <roycroft> i've considered making one but have never gotten around to it
[22:16] <eucalre> smokers are too expensive for me to justify it, i wouldn't use it often eno
[22:17] <roycroft> i'm sure i have enough stuff laying around to make one
[22:17] <wettoast> ive seen some bbq's that include one on the side
[22:17] <wettoast> smoked meat is just great...
[22:17] <wettoast> even cheese...
[22:17] <roycroft> i don't eat birds or mammals
[22:17] <roycroft> but i do like smoked tuna and smoked salmon
[22:17] <wettoast> neither do i... ??
[22:18] <wettoast> you dont eat beef?
[22:18] <roycroft> nope
[22:18] <wettoast> wow....
[22:18] <wettoast> is it a religious thing?
[22:18] <roycroft> nope
[22:18] <wettoast> they what is it?
[22:18] <roycroft> it's a health thing
[22:18] <wettoast> than
[22:18] <roycroft> and a planetary resource allocation thing
[22:18] <wettoast> really... well, thats good then...
[22:18] <roycroft> and a tradition
[22:18] <wettoast> i guess, i would have the will to resist great steak
[22:19] <belter> could be a blood type thing
[22:19] <wettoast> its all fine, as long as you take it in moderation you know...
[22:19] <belter> red meat is bad for type A blood
[22:19] <roycroft> it's been over 30 years since i've had red meat or poultry
[22:19] <wettoast> i dont even know what type of blood i have, but i know i like good steak :
[22:19] <belter> whoa, i wish i could afford to give up yard bird
[22:19] <wettoast> roycroft: what do you eat?
[22:20] <roycroft> lots of good stuff
[22:20] <roycroft> a fair amount of seafood
[22:20] <roycroft> lots of veggies
[22:20] <wettoast> i think a lot has to do with your genes, im 6'1, and in the right weight..
[22:20] <roycroft> tofu/tempeh
[22:20] <wettoast> but seafood is a double egded sword...
[22:20] <roycroft> and i do eat some dairy products
[22:21] <wettoast> the omega 3 fatty acods are nice, but the mercury/cholesterol sucks ass...
[22:21] <wettoast> dairy is bad for you
[22:21] <wettoast> period.
[22:21] <roycroft> everything is bad for you
[22:21] <roycroft> eew
[22:21] <roycroft> don't let that person back
[22:21] <wettoast> SvX?
[22:21] <roycroft> yes
[22:21] <roycroft> well
[22:22] <wettoast> why not?
[22:22] <roycroft> svx is a newbie
[22:22] <roycroft> but tell him/her about that signoff mirc colour crap
[22:24] <wettoast> well, if everything is bad for you, then wtf do you care whar you do/use..
[22:24] <roycroft> air can hurt you too
[22:25] <wettoast> you can hurt yourself, and usually you do
[22:25] <roycroft> it's all about degrees
[22:25] <roycroft> there's not much that's black or white
[22:25] <roycroft> grey is groovy
[22:25] <roycroft> choosing your shades of grey is what is important
[22:25] <wettoast> what about pink?
[22:26] <roycroft> pink is for ethernet cables
[22:26] <wettoast> never seen any yet, but it would be ineteresting, heh...
[22:26] * roycroft needs to find the pink cable url
[22:27] <AC-130U> apparently invision is some sort of mirc addon
[22:27] <wettoast> my ex-gf sais i woukd look sexy in pink/purple
[22:28] <wettoast> i said, wont i look gay? Shes said: No...
[22:32] <roycroft> hmm
[22:32] <roycroft> i don't seem to have the pink cable discussion online
[22:32] <roycroft> dang it
[22:33] <wettoast> i think i would route the pink cables to the OSX boxes :P
[22:36] <roycroft> i'm sure figz has a copy
[22:37] <lizsac> all of mine are orange
[22:37] <lizsac> to match the fiber cables
[22:38] <lizsac> orange for wan red for lan and yellow for crossover
[22:38] <lizsac> ohh wait no i changed it
[22:38] <lizsac> red for wan
[22:39] <lizsac> serial is black
[22:39] <lizsac> i might have some green in there too
[22:39] <roycroft> i've never paid any attention to the colour of the cable itself
[22:39] <lizsac> green is always good
[22:40] <eucalre> lizsac pink or orange cables are often reserved for a special meaning
[22:40] <roycroft> but i use different coloured boots on the ends to designate different uses
[22:40] <roycroft> eucalre knows well of pink cables
[22:40] <eucalre> nod
[22:40] <roycroft> on a certain other channel pink cables are infamous
[22:40] <eucalre> i was trying to find it as well, i thought evil_ed had it online
[22:40] <wettoast> it can make organizing easier...
[22:40] <lizsac> special like waht
[22:40] <roycroft> i'm sure figz has it, eucalre
[22:40] <roycroft> we'll just wait for him to show up
[22:41] <eucalre> lizsac someone that should have known better had a cross over cable connec
[22:41] <roycroft> and in the worst case i'm sure i have it on a cd or qic tape
[22:41] <eucalre> he got clowned pretty badly for it
[22:41] <lizsac> it's ok if it's on uplink
[22:41] <lizsac> heh
[22:41] <lizsac> err wait
[22:41] <eucalre> since then it's become part of the collective memory of a certain channel
[22:41] <lizsac> yeah
[22:42] <roycroft> to the point that the mere mention of "pink cable" will get several folks
[22:42] <wettoast> you guys are tarts :P
[22:42] <roycroft> but it's impossible to relate the story anywhere near as well as reading t
[22:45] <eucalre> the logs aren't very complete unfortunately
[22:45] <wettoast> So my PS fried, because hydro decided to go on and off 10x in one second.
[22:45] <eucalre> a significant portion of the log is a /last $user
[22:45] <roycroft> i have a pretty good log of it somewhere
[22:45] <roycroft> i just cant
[22:45] <roycroft> find it at the moment
[22:46] <roycroft> i took a lot of stuff offline
[22:46] <eucalre> useless
[22:46] <eucalre> kp you by any chance have a fbsd 4 iso image around?
[22:46] <wettoast> eucalre
[22:46] <eucalre> ?
[22:47] <wettoast> thats widely available
[22:47] <eucalre> no it's not
[22:47] <wettoast> which one do you need?
[22:47] <roycroft> perhaps 4.6
[22:47] <eucalre> any
[22:47] <wettoast> any?
[22:47] <eucalre> any fbsd 4.x
[22:47] <eucalre> obviously 4.11 is prefered, but any will do
[22:47] <roycroft> can't you get it from freebsd.org anymore?
[22:47] <wettoast> i386?
[22:47] <eucalre> correct i386
[22:48] <roycroft> if it do it's here at home
[22:48] <roycroft> and i get about 20kb/s upload speeds from home
[22:48] <eucalre> roycroft no they've purged all the old images, i suppose i could do an ftp
[22:48] <roycroft> so it would take a couple days to put online
[22:48] <eucalre> i can wait the 2-3 days
[22:48] <roycroft> i'll see what i have
[22:48] <eucalre> thanks
[22:48] <roycroft> if i can find the stuff i'll bring it to work
[22:48] <wettoast> ftp://ftp-archive.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-Archive/old-releases/i386/ISO-IM
[22:49] <wettoast> try that one
[22:49] <roycroft> or you can go there
[22:50] <wettoast> but unless its really old hardware, id go for 6.1
[22:59] <roycroft> hmm
[23:00] <roycroft> south park is on at 11:00 now, not 11:30
[23:00] <roycroft> hmm
[23:00] <roycroft> i just found a 1st edition unix manual
[23:00] <roycroft> cool
[23:00] <roycroft> i haven't seen that in a long time
[23:01] * roycroft has so much stuff stashed away
[23:03] <wettoast> roycroft: is most of it useless?
[23:03] <roycroft> historical artifacts are not useless
[23:04] <wettoast> right, i have the same problem
[23:04] <eucalre> storage vs need
[23:04] <roycroft> storage is almost free these days
[23:05] <wettoast> Digital? Maybe.. Physical? No...
[23:05] <roycroft> -rw-r--r-- 1 sgd wheel 172670 Jul 17 1992 1st.edition.tar.gz
[23:05] <roycroft> it's not that big
[23:06] <wettoast> nice...
[23:06] <roycroft> the problem is not the storage -- it's the indexing/organisation
[23:06] <wettoast> thats another problem...
[23:07] <roycroft> that's the real problem
[23:07] <eucalre> |3|-|@\/i\|i says:
[23:07] <eucalre> how r u
[23:07] <eucalre> yech
[23:07] <wettoast> i've tackled this idea, with an UI that responds to our mmods and feelings
[23:07] <wettoast> err, moods.
[23:08] <roycroft> i'm starting to use mediawiki to organise things
[23:08] <roycroft> i think it has potential
[23:08] <wettoast> you always feel whar you want to see...
[23:08] <eucalre> the next version of the google desktop needs to be able to search for that
[23:09] <wettoast> the problem is with the interface, what does a human feel like to a comput
[23:09] <eucalre> kind of like a short circuit
[23:11] <wettoast> and how does it determine how you feel like? Comples programming no doubt.
[23:11] <wettoast> err, complex
[23:13] <wettoast> It would take a an excellent combination of a psychiatrist and a computer
[23:17] <roycroft> eliza has been doing it for decades in emacs
[23:19] <wettoast> well, emacs is an OS i do not care to look in to myself :P
Session Close: Fri Apr 28 00:00:00 2006
IRC Chat Logs - An Archive of EFnet IRC Channels
Log for #unixhelp on 2006-04-27