IRC Chat Logs - An Archive of EFnet IRC Channels

Session Start: Sat Feb 02 00:00:00 2008
Session Ident: #gamedev
[00:10] <microcosm> http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/30/internet.pr.failure/index.html
[00:10] <microcosm> o shit
[00:12] <microcosm> "It is just plain embarrassing that al Qaeda is better at communicating i
[00:12] <microcosm> w.t.f.z.
[00:13] <microcosm> lol
[00:13] <microcosm> this administration needs to go.
[00:13] <microcosm> fast.
[00:59] <microcosm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-time_rule
[00:59] <microcosm> dont see this being enfored
[00:59] <microcosm> enforced
[01:08] <kaotrix> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/02/technology/02soft.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogi
[03:15] <byp4ss> anyone know about a good tutorial regarding the planning of a new game?
[06:12] <honkykong> sup ppl
[06:12] <honkykong> anyone chatty
[06:31] <Cote-Duke> Everyone's sleepy.
[06:34] <honkykong> guess so
[06:34] * honkykong sips coffee
[07:06] * honkykong continues chugging coffee
[07:20] <Luggage> I asked this question in #OpenGL, but I find that place to be quite deserte
[07:21] <Luggage> I'm currently trying to get a simple triangle to move around the screen. I
[07:21] <Astaroth_> yeah, you usually want to redraw the frame as often as possible
[07:21] <Luggage> With GLUT you hand over all your control to GLUT, so I don't know how it ha
[07:22] <Astaroth_> I would reccomend SDL instead of GLUT
[07:22] <Luggage> So I can't simply translate it, then call a swapbuffers-function? I need to
[07:22] <Astaroth_> its much cleaner, and at least as easy to use
[07:22] <Luggage> I'm using GLFW, which I find even cleaner ^^
[07:22] <Astaroth_> in glut you usually set up an idlefunc, wher you redraw the scene
[07:23] <Luggage> Yeah I don't like GLUT, it's fine for tiny examples, but I'm about to begin
[07:23] <Astaroth_> http://www.libsdl.org/
[07:23] <Luggage> But ok, I need to redraw everything each frame, not just translate it. Than
[07:24] <Luggage> I've used SDL, I prefer GLFW.
[07:24] <Cote-Duke> SDL's great for cross-platform development. Otherwise..
[07:24] <Astaroth_> the framerate will probably be a couple of thousand frames per second if
[07:25] <Astaroth_> either by sleeping or adjusting your translation to compensate for framer
[07:25] <Astaroth_> well, all you'll use glut and SDL for is window management, so it doesnt
[07:25] <Astaroth_> all opengl code will remain the same
[07:25] <Luggage> Yeah I've already implemented that. Debugging it I saw that everything work
[07:27] <Luggage> Thanks again for the help, off to make my triangle happy. :D
[07:28] <honkykong> sdl++
[07:28] <honkykong> timescaled motion++
[07:29] <byp4ss> I thought GLFW was for fonts :D
[07:29] <honkykong> slowassflash--
[07:29] <Astaroth_> one common way to control the framerate is to time each frame, and sleep
[07:30] <honkykong> i like to make each bit of motion scaled by the ms
[07:30] <honkykong> so bullet travels at 0.001 increment per millisecond
[07:31] <honkykong> then keep track of lastupdate timestamp, get the current interval by figu
[07:32] <Luggage> Yeah that's my approach aswell, but you have to be careful to get it all wo
[07:32] <Astaroth_> the ideal way to do it is to use formulas that incorporate real time to c
[07:32] <Astaroth_> but it can be tricky at times
[07:33] <Cote-Duke> It is very tricky indeed.
[07:33] <honkykong> maybe for newbs
[07:33] <honkykong> not me.
[07:34] <honkykong> slakrs
[07:34] <honkykong> ghaleon would admonish all of you for your slakrness
[07:34] <honkykong> were he not brazilianized right now
[07:35] <byp4ss> seems like GLFW is what I'm looking for
[07:35] <byp4ss> currently I'm using SDL
[07:35] <honkykong> wuts wrong with sdl
[07:35] <Cote-Duke> Have you ever tried implementing vehicle simulation with the delta-time (
[07:35] <honkykong> aside from no accelerated bitblitting
[07:36] <honkykong> which i'd peg as a gl limitation more than a sdl lmiitation an yways
[07:36] <Astaroth_> uhm, SDL has accellerated blits :P
[07:36] <Astaroth_> even on linux
[07:36] <honkykong> lies
[07:36] <byp4ss> I don't know all the SDL functions, but I know that I'm using far from all o
[07:36] <Astaroth_> no
[07:36] <honkykong> you have to map them to tri's
[07:36] <Astaroth_> I've used SDL at work for like 10 years
[07:36] <Luggage> byp4ss: Give me a PM if you have trouble 'installing' it, if you're develop
[07:36] <honkykong> Show Me.
[07:36] <byp4ss> and I've read about many other ppl that liked GLFW better, so I thought that
[07:36] <honkykong> :p
[07:36] <Astaroth_> which platform?
[07:36] <honkykong> sers tho?
[07:36] <Astaroth_> yup, sers
[07:37] <honkykong> wtf
[07:37] <byp4ss> I can easily go back to SDL if I want to :P
[07:37] <honkykong> i was makin platformer in sdl/gl a while
[07:37] <byp4ss> Luggage: ok ;)
[07:37] <honkykong> had to do a bunch of goofy shit to get my tile's mapped to poly to get ac
[07:37] <honkykong> the internets seem to support my claims
[07:37] <honkykong> are you sure your blits are actually hardward accelerated?
[07:37] <Astaroth_> well, if you use SDL/GL you will not blit
[07:38] <Astaroth_> you will rasterize triangles :P
[07:38] <honkykong> right but the only reason i was using gl was to accelerate blit
[07:38] <Astaroth_> then you shouldnt use opengl
[07:38] <honkykong> my framerate went up like 800% doing it that way tho
[07:38] <honkykong> and everything became nicely scalable and rotatable etc
[07:39] <honkykong> it got much sexier
[07:39] <honkykong> but whats your method for hw accel blitting in sdl sans gl
[07:39] <honkykong> maybe i'm just fuct
[07:39] <FMJaguar> CHECKERMATE
[07:39] <Astaroth_> jsut use a driver that has hw supprt :P
[07:39] <Luggage> byp4ss: Among other things, you need to include 5 lib's, define #GLFW_DLL b
[07:39] <Astaroth_> its patform dependant
[07:40] <Astaroth_> on windows its probably always accelerated through directx
[07:40] <Astaroth_> on linux you need to use the right driver though
[07:40] <honkykong> SDL_HWACCEL wtf
[07:41] <honkykong> k i gotta dig up my old code
[07:41] <honkykong> i'm sure i tried that
[07:41] <Astaroth_> all you should need to do on windows is using HW surfaces
[07:42] <honkykong> i had nothing but problems
[07:42] <honkykong> trying it the easy way
[07:42] <Astaroth_> I still dont get why you are blitting when using opengl though, thats not
[07:42] <Astaroth_> and you may very well run into issues with it
[07:42] <Astaroth_> its like using directdraw in d3d
[07:42] <Astaroth_> its not supposed to be done that way
[07:43] <Astaroth_> either you stick with the 2D blitting API, or you use "3d acceleration",
[07:43] <Astaroth_> mixing the two will get you in trouble ;)
[07:48] <honkykong> well since i started mapping tri i stopped blitting
[07:48] <honkykong> i'm loading up old blit project now
[07:51] <honkykong> goddamn i hate visual studio
[07:51] <honkykong> why does everyone love thsi pos so much
[07:51] <Astaroth_> whats wrong with it?
[07:52] <Astaroth_> there's always eclipse ;)
[07:54] <honkykong> i think it just deleted my fucking project 'for me'
[07:56] <byp4ss> will GLFW be compatible with OpenGL 3? (or is there no way to tell?)
[07:57] <Astaroth_> it doesnt matter
[07:57] <Astaroth_> its just a "window manager"
[07:57] <Astaroth_> it doesnt really interact with opengl except setting up a device context
[08:03] <honkykong> gdamn i forgot what a stupid pos vse is
[08:03] <honkykong> 'manifest' files
[08:03] <honkykong> fuck manifest files gdamn
[08:04] <Cote-Duke> A bold statement...
[08:06] <honkykong> i'm a bold man
[08:08] <honkykong> ah fuck this
[08:08] <honkykong> i forgot how much vs made me hate life
[08:08] <honkykong> back to my flash shit
[08:09] <honkykong> wuts eclipse about?
[08:09] <honkykong> so tired of microsoft
[08:12] <Cote-Duke> I'm sure Sun won't improve your quality of life either.
[08:12] <honkykong> you're probably right
[08:12] <honkykong> i should just write my own compiler
[08:14] <kermit`_> wtf? did i miss something? :p
[08:15] <honkykong> yes, boobs, 17 minutes ago
[08:15] <honkykong> they were glorious
[08:16] <honkykong> wanna rewind?
[08:18] <RUEbaiYaT> honkykong: what's the matter with Visua Studio ?
[08:18] <kermit`_> honkykong: :(
[08:18] <kermit`_> honkykong: yesh
[08:19] <honkykong> it buries my code in 18 layers of subfolders deep in my documents directo
[08:19] <honkykong> it links shit so as to require manifest files and stupid shit like that
[08:19] <honkykong> the Express edition requires external 'vbrun' ish dependencys for other m
[08:19] <honkykong> theres no 'compile lines', just pages and pages of options panels
[08:20] <honkykong> it just sucks i'm sick of it
[08:21] <honkykong> people say 'oh well thats the price you pay for <blah>' (prolly sta
[08:21] <honkykong> well i dont use or need that shit
[08:21] <honkykong> so i'm paying that usability price for... nothing
[08:21] <honkykong> i need a text editor and a fucking command line, thats it.
[08:32] <FMJaguar> what are you coding with? I'm doing a C++ gui app atm and it runs everywhe
[08:34] <FMJaguar> although if your using their stuff like .net framework an all that it'll b
[09:26] <honkykong> FMJaguar was coding with vse using sdl, lua, and gl
[09:26] <honkykong> was a total pita
[09:49] <RUEbaiYaT> I wrote a little prototype 3d engine using visual studio (not express) us
[09:54] <FMJaguar> i need to get into lua
[09:55] <[Relic]> Hello :)
[09:55] <FMJaguar> i just have trouble with scripting, since i either do all scripting (php),
[09:55] <FMJaguar> have to think through where the handoffs are
[09:56] <FMJaguar> like some things make sense, in a game engine you don't want to code all t
[10:09] <honkykong> goddamn flash sucks balls
[10:18] <RUEbaiYaT> I like that you can integrate Lua with C++, so that you can parameterize
[10:20] <RUEbaiYaT> I should revisit that 3d engine again and get the scene graph working cor
[10:23] <RUEbaiYaT> Is there a good text about scene graph theory and fundamentals ?
[11:03] <RUEbaiYaT> I suppose not. :)
[11:05] * Disconnected
[11:05] * Attempting to rejoin channel #gamedev
[11:05] * Rejoined channel #gamedev
[13:28] <Ultyma> ahhh
[13:29] <Cote-Duke> ohhh
[13:33] <Cote-Duke> So, I came across one quite interesting technology.
[13:33] <Cote-Duke> So called "Digital Molecular Matter"
[13:33] <Cote-Duke> The idea being that objects are made out of small particles and are able
[13:34] <Cote-Duke> LucasArts is going to use this stuff in their upcoming StarWars game.
[13:34] <honkykong> like some sort of nano-dong eh
[13:36] <Cote-Duke> Now, one thing that keeps me awake at night - how efficient is this molec
[13:36] <honkykong> i wouldnt be too alarmed
[13:36] <honkykong> star wars games pretty much always suck
[13:36] <honkykong> except kotor
[13:36] <honkykong> and lego starwars
[13:37] <honkykong> and podracer
[13:37] <honkykong> heres what keeps me up at night
[13:37] <honkykong> say i'm a client
[13:37] <honkykong> and you're a server
[13:38] <honkykong> and if either of us send too much data too fast at th eother, shit goes b
[13:38] <honkykong> so i keep a counter of how much shit i've sent, vs how much you've told m
[13:38] <honkykong> and if the gap between the two isnt 0, i dont send until it is
[13:38] <honkykong> now say you do the same
[13:38] <honkykong> problem solved except... that gap is never 0 for both client and server a
[13:39] <Cote-Duke> Naturally.
[13:40] <Cote-Duke> Well, there must be some level of tolerance.
[13:40] <honkykong> with tolerance comes packet loss
[13:40] <honkykong> say i keep track of the last packet sent size
[13:41] <Cote-Duke> Packet loss - this what networking is all about. :)
[13:41] <honkykong> and i say 'go ahead and send more data even if the last data wasnt confir
[13:41] <honkykong> which sounds reasonable
[13:41] <honkykong> but then it tries to stuff two packets down the toob right on top of each
[13:41] <honkykong> and the first one gets nuked
[13:43] <honkykong> quite a conundrom
[13:44] <honkykong> so i figure, ok... when i send data from one side, i say, 'lock the port
[13:45] <Daveman> DONKYHONG
[13:45] <honkykong> so if i send you some data, and you confirm it recieved, and i send nothi
[13:46] <honkykong> DAVEMAN
[13:46] <Cote-Duke> Yeah, it is complicated and unfurtunately I'm not an expert in this field
[13:46] <Cote-Duke> The best way is to experiment.
[13:46] <honkykong> yup
[13:46] <honkykong> i'm not really asking for answers btw
[13:46] <honkykong> i'm just
[13:46] <honkykong> banging my head against the problem
[13:46] <honkykong> so bouncing ideas around
[13:47] <honkykong> i think i'm gonna take a shower and contemplate a while
[13:47] <honkykong> and by that i mean go have sex with a bagel
[13:47] <RUEbaiYaT> honkykong: maybe you should read up on TCP/IP sliding windows
[13:47] <honkykong> maybe
[13:47] <honkykong> cause i have no idea what that is
[13:49] <RUEbaiYaT> basically it's a way to increase send data until the link gets saturated
[13:49] <honkykong> ah ok
[13:49] <RUEbaiYaT> the TCP/IP implementation though, promotes reliability over throughput ho
[13:49] <honkykong> thats what i've been considering, calling it 'dead reckoning' for data tr
[13:51] <Daveman> :D
[13:51] <Daveman> zomg
[13:51] <Daveman> your crapapp is going to be multiplayer!? :O
[13:52] <honkykong> lol it ALREADY IS!
[13:52] <honkykong> mmopong
[13:52] <honkykong> coming soon to a pos lil browser near you
[14:00] <Daveman> :O
[14:00] <Daveman> hoenoes
[14:00] <Daveman> teh flashes!111
[14:01] <RUEbaiYaT> huhu
[14:01] <RUEbaiYaT> anyone want to play Spring ?
[14:03] <Daveman> haha
[14:03] <Cote-Duke> I want to play Summer.
[14:04] <Cote-Duke> In real life.
[14:51] <honkykong> dont you hate it when you like, turn the coffeemaker on but you forgot to
[14:51] <honkykong> so the water just drips out all over everything and makes a huge fucking
[14:51] <honkykong> i'm so glad i dont do dumb shit like that
[14:51] <aav_hlm> lul :)
[14:51] <honkykong> that'd make me a fking fool
[14:52] <honkykong> lol
[14:52] <honkykong> hi aav
[14:52] <aav_hlm> i like how my friend brewed coffee
[14:52] <honkykong> sup m8
[14:52] <honkykong> with his balls?
[14:52] <aav_hlm> he filled the filter ALL the way up with grounds
[14:52] <honkykong> that'd be a neat trick
[14:52] <aav_hlm> and filled her up with water
[14:52] <aav_hlm> because that way, he "didn't have to measure and shit"
[14:52] <honkykong> lol i bitched some chick out for that once
[14:52] <aav_hlm> nevermind that the coffee was full of grounds
[14:52] <honkykong> she was a roommates guest
[14:52] <aav_hlm> ah :P
[14:52] <honkykong> and used teh last of my coffee like that
[14:52] <aav_hlm> he did this regularly
[14:52] <honkykong> like gdamn bitch
[14:52] <aav_hlm> at home too
[14:52] <honkykong> hahah
[14:52] <aav_hlm> yeah heh
[14:53] <honkykong> thats funny
[14:53] <aav_hlm> all in the name of laziness i guess :P
[14:53] <honkykong> and dumbassery
[14:53] <honkykong> what have you been up to man
[14:53] <honkykong> hackin the gibson?
[15:33] * ZorbaBeta is now known as ZorbaTHut
[17:33] <Anddos> is it possible to put 4 rays around a 3d object .x?
[17:33] <Anddos> pointing up
[17:33] <Anddos> so if it touches another object
[17:37] <Daveman> hmm
[17:51] <Anddos> anyone?
[17:52] <Anddos> how can i draw a ray
[17:56] <gencha> you draw a line through two points
[17:58] <Anddos> i want to see the ray D3DXIntersect creates
[18:04] <kaotrix> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=
[18:11] <yosh64> hey
[18:12] <yosh64> I was wondering if anyone here understands the maths behind calcuating the t
[18:22] <gencha> the tangent of a vertex to what?
[18:22] <yosh64> tangent vector...
[18:23] <yosh64> as in for a tbn matrix (tangent/bitangent/normal) matrix...
[18:23] <yosh64> for transforming whatever into tangent space for bump mapping or whatever...
[18:23] <yosh64> but nm this
[18:24] <yosh64> anyhows I meant for a face... like...
[18:25] <yosh64> well ya calc a tangent/bitangent for each vertex using each point/edge of a
[18:25] <yosh64> and the texcoords of each face/triangle
[18:25] <yosh64> anyhows it's a bit tricky, and I don't understand the maths involved :\
[18:26] <yosh64> want me to post a link to some example code that calcs tangent/bitangent?
[19:47] * sbox[i] is now known as realtime
[22:53] * pingsweep is now known as CyrixLord
[23:34] * sbox[i] is now known as eraltime
[23:34] * eraltime is now known as realtime
Session Close: Sun Feb 03 00:00:00 2008