IRC Chat Logs - An Archive of EFnet IRC Channels

Session Start: Wed Sep 13 00:00:00 2006
Session Ident: #gamedev
[00:58] * erimOff is now known as erim
[02:35] <kozmonaut> wow, i think i figured the new thing im going to learn
[02:36] <kozmonaut> sun java wireless toolkit beta 2.5 the new j2me
[02:36] <kozmonaut> such a smooth interface now
[03:57] <Rangar> http://www.microsoft.com/oem/english/licensing/gsi/default.mspx
[04:03] * NosOff is now known as NosTek
[05:40] <aav> Rangar, you around?
[05:49] * Disconnected
[05:49] * Attempting to rejoin channel #gamedev
[05:49] * Rejoined channel #gamedev
[05:49] * Topic is 'XNA Competition? Vote @ ziggyware.com :: http://www.agi32.com/Extra/TechnicalDo
[05:49] * Set by Dr_Rambo!Dr_Rambo@212.158.165.4 on Tue Sep 12 08:40:24
[05:49] -bleeding- Welcome to #gamedev, jJones. No warez, no triggers, no servers, no banners, no
[06:46] * dvoid is now known as Dvoid|P24
[07:15] <aav> http://adrinael.net/variablehack.cpp
[07:18] <erim> wow aav, that's intuitive :D
[07:18] <aav> completely and utterly insane :)
[07:18] <erim> indeed
[08:22] * NosTek is now known as NosOff
[08:45] <SSilver> siiilllllver :D
[08:45] <SSilver> what's up ?
[08:46] <SSilver> raziel ?
[08:56] * savage|IR is now known as randelPRO
[09:18] <moebius> so is xna all that
[09:19] <moebius> and then some?
[09:19] <Ultyma> XNgay
[09:20] <moebius> hehe
[09:20] <Ultyma> I <3 my 360
[09:20] <redwyre> depends what "all that" is
[09:24] * t7 is now known as ht7z
[09:25] <moebius> so whats new in here
[09:27] <J-Rod> yo momma
[09:30] * erim is now known as erimOff
[09:31] <moebius> sup jared
[09:33] <J-Rod> nada
[09:33] <J-Rod> getting ready to go do some PC work
[09:33] <J-Rod> and trying to catch ziggy
[09:34] <J-Rod> so he can give the yay or nay one some new gfx
[09:34] <moebius> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dRgYd5Mxs0
[09:34] <J-Rod> *on
[09:34] <moebius> ah what are yall working on
[09:34] <J-Rod> just trying to make ziggyware look decent
[09:34] <Ultyma> lawl
[09:35] <J-Rod> well, working within his limits
[09:35] <moebius> heh
[09:35] <J-Rod> doesn't want to do any real HTML overhaul
[09:35] <J-Rod> I am thinking something along these lines
[09:35] <moebius> you guys should look into openlaszlo
[09:35] <J-Rod> http://jrodder.googlepages.com/food_for_thought.png
[09:35] <moebius> its the next big thing
[09:36] <J-Rod> the whole gel look is a bit played out though
[09:36] <moebius> heh yea
[09:37] <J-Rod> but he gives like 0 input on what he wants, so it's kinda hard to come up wit
[09:37] <FMJaguar> ziggyware needs a rap song
[09:37] <J-Rod> short of a mind meld
[09:37] <J-Rod> openlazlo looks neat
[09:38] <moebius> it is.
[09:38] <moebius> makes it so easy to do complex things
[09:38] <J-Rod> I think I found my next avatar
[09:38] <J-Rod> http://jrodder.googlepages.com/bambi.gif
[09:45] <moebius> lol that's a good one
[10:20] <moebius> guess i'll start the first #openlaszlo chan on efnet
[10:20] <moebius> see if it picks up
[10:22] <moebius> of course nobody or 1-2 people will come for a long time then i lose inter
[10:23] <moebius> then come back a few years later and it's packed full of people giving me t
[10:23] <moebius> like what happened when i started #opengl & #directx :)
[10:36] <[Relic]> Hello :)
[10:37] <ht7z> Hello! :)
[10:37] <[Relic]> :)
[10:37] <Nightshde> im reading the book Programming Vertex and Pixel shaders and there is one
[10:38] <Nightshde> that doesnt make any sense because it does not have bump mapping which me
[10:39] <[Relic]> but aren't you rendering from a camera and therefore the 3d surface may act
[10:40] <Nightshde> well the normal and light vector are getting sent from the vertex shader.
[10:40] <Nightshde> which means they would always be the same for that group of pixels that u
[10:40] <Nightshde> or maybe im misunderstanding the bridge between the two
[10:41] <Nightshde> er... for H its the View and Light Dir
[10:41] <Nightshde> but still those positions are coming from the vertex shader
[10:41] <[Relic]> isn't blinn-phong a circular shader, or is that just how it appears in blen
[10:42] <[Relic]> maybe you need a good reread or someone who understands shaders :)
[10:42] <Nightshde> its just how it displays shaders in blender
[10:42] <Nightshde> sphere's are good to use since they are curvature and you can see the eff
[10:43] <[Relic]> I don't care how it works as long as my pictures turn out pretty in the end
[11:07] <Nightshde> well, anyone care to chime in?
[11:30] <Nightshde> well, any HLSL guys in there that can answere a question for me
[11:33] <Nightshde> Wehn you output the NORMAL transformed with the world coordinate in the v
[11:33] <Nightshde> It seems every pixel in the pixel shader would have the same normal as it
[11:42] <redwyre> afaik, the normal will be linearly interpolated, and sometimes that can giv
[11:43] <Nightshde> so when outputting the normal or light vector in a TEXCOORD register, it
[11:44] <aav> values you emit from VS to PS always get interpolated across the triangle
[11:44] <aav> unfortunately using linear interpolation
[11:44] <aav> its generic
[11:45] <aav> and you can't interpolate normals linearly
[11:45] <Nightshde> so to do proper pixel shading, dot products from the normal to the light
[11:45] <aav> for one thing, their length will usually go < 1.0
[11:45] <redwyre> just re-normalising them should be fine
[11:45] <aav> and also, the distribution across the triangle won't be um.. linear in terms of
[11:46] <aav> renormalization solves the first proble, but not the second
[11:46] <aav> but it's usually good enough
[11:48] <redwyre> use smaller triangles :)
[11:48] <Nightshde> hmmm normalizing a already normalized vector doesnt ruin it?
[11:51] <redwyre> nope
[11:52] <Nightshde> okay so if my understanding is correct, the "interpolated" value is the n
[11:55] <aav> um
[11:55] <aav> draw two normals like arrows on a paper... then draw a straight line between th
[11:55] <aav> er, the arrows should originate from the same point
[11:55] <aav> anyway the straight line is the interpolated values you get
[11:56] <aav> and as you can see theyre no longer at unit distance from the origin point
[11:56] <Nightshde> ah okay, so every vertex is going through the vertex shader before going
[11:57] <Nightshde> so it doesnt matter what type of values you send over
[11:57] <Nightshde> normalized, world coordinates, unit vectors
[11:59] <aav> theyre all interpolated linearly yeah
[12:08] <FlyMario> sleezy?
[12:18] <Nightshde> thanks guys
[12:44] <Nightshde> real quick, aav: how come in HLSL you can normalize() something multiple
[12:44] <aav> no
[12:44] <Nightshde> well then again.... its still pointing in the same direction so maybe it
[12:45] <aav> normalization is v = v / length(v)
[12:45] <aav> as long as length(v) is > 0, it'll give the vector a length of 1
[12:47] <Nightshde> hmmm
[12:47] <aav> if it gets gradually smaller every time, you are doing it wrong :P
[12:47] <Nightshde> well isnt length getting recalucalted?
[12:47] <Nightshde> the length of a unit vector is smaller then the length of the normal non
[12:47] <capisce> huh?
[12:48] <aav> huh? :P
[12:48] <aav> lets say length(v) is 0.5
[12:48] <capisce> normalize(normalize(V)) == normalize(V), mathematically
[12:48] <aav> v.x /= 0.5; v.y /= 0.5; v.z /= 0.5;
[12:48] <aav> length(v) is now 1.0
[12:49] <aav> next time you'll be doing
[12:49] <aav> v.x /= 1.0; v.y /= 1.0; v.z /= 1.0;
[12:49] <aav> which obviously means no change (excluding floating point errors)
[12:50] <Nightshde> well here is what i did
[12:50] <Nightshde> X = 5, Y = 10, Z = 20;
[12:50] <Nightshde> Length = sqrt( X * Y * Z );
[12:50] <Nightshde> NX = X / Length; NY = Y / Length;NZ = Z / Length;
[12:50] <Nightshde> Length = sqrt( NX * NY * NZ );
[12:50] <Nightshde> NX = NX / Length; NY = NY / Length; NZ = NZ / Length;
[12:50] <Nightshde> sorry for the paste
[12:50] <aav> your length calculation is wrong :)
[12:51] <aav> sqrt( x*x + y*y + z*z )
[12:51] <Nightshde> oh duh
[12:51] * Nightshde slaps himself.
[12:51] <aav> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_theorem
[12:52] <Nightshde> i know, im just an idiot right now
[12:52] <Nightshde> hehe
[12:52] <aav> :D
[13:08] <Nightshde> FX Compose needs an auto complete
[13:08] <Nightshde> visual assist for FX Composer would be sweet hehe
[13:08] <Nightshde> im spoiled
[13:53] <Nightshde> so why is it that normalizing in the vertex shader gives worse results th
[13:53] <Nightshde> sorry for all the questions... I understand the fact that things are inte
[13:54] <Nightshde> im guessing its because when converted to the pixel shader... the unit ve
[13:56] <Nightshde> well nm that... its still normalized...
[13:56] <Nightshde> im confused lol
[14:08] <Nightshde> er if someone could just answere this...
[14:09] <Nightshde> why does my shader look different if i pass my light direction in from th
[14:09] <Nightshde> the light position does not change
[14:11] <Nightshde> Lemme refrase: Vertex Shader: Out.Light = LightDir. LightDir is a fi
[14:11] <Nightshde> it looks different if i ignore passing it from the vertex to pixel shader
[14:11] <Nightshde> makes no sense since it never moves
[14:14] * Dvoid|P24 is now known as Dvoid|133
[14:17] * Dvoid|133 is now known as Dvoid|^_^
[14:23] <Nightshde> doh guess i'll have to ask the question again later... headin home
[14:23] <Nightshde> thanks for all the help guys
[14:33] * mess_ is now known as mess
[14:43] <SSilver> ya ya
[14:43] <SSilver> hi
[14:45] <SSilver> WIFI... :D
[15:05] * Dvoid|^_^ is now known as Dvoidis
[15:36] <Nightshde> Yay, im back.. I bet everyone's stoked
[15:36] <Nightshde> hehe
[15:37] <J-Rod> we were counting the minutes
[15:38] <Nightshde> So back to my question... I understand that everything sent from the vert
[15:38] <Nightshde> when the light vector is the same for all the vertices
[15:41] * NosOff is now known as NosTek
[15:43] <Nightshde> float3 LightVec; // This is the global. struct VS_OUTPUT { float3 Light
[15:43] <Nightshde> previous event
[15:44] <Nightshde> even though LightVec never changes.. When passing it from the VS to PS th
[15:44] <Nightshde> to me, it seems there is nothing to interpolate since LightVec never chan
[15:44] <Ultyma> http://catsinurstuffdoingthings.ytmnd.com/
[16:02] <Nightshde> hmm is there a channel for HLSL?
[16:06] <kozmonaut> there is a kozmonaut fan channel
[16:06] <kozmonaut> its called #kozrocks
[16:06] <Ziggy-> people here know HLSL :)
[16:07] <Nightshde> i know this, but everyone but Kozmonaut is sleeping with hte fishes
[16:07] <Ziggy-> lies
[16:07] <Ziggy-> i just got home frum werk
[16:07] <Ziggy-> :D
[16:07] <Nightshde> oh goody
[16:08] <Nightshde> this guys is amazing... http://www.joelnielsen.com/
[16:08] <Nightshde> he's doing the soundtrack for Back Mesa for HL2: Source engine
[16:08] <Nightshde> basically Half-Life 1 on the HL2 Engine
[16:08] <Nightshde> his demos are superb
[16:08] <Ziggy-> the reason it is interpolating is because you're passing it as a texture coo
[16:08] <Ziggy-> :P
[16:09] <Nightshde> interpolating to what... and arent TEXCOORD the only thing to use for cus
[16:09] <Nightshde> according to the book im reading TEXCOORn is for Texture coordinates or o
[16:09] <Ziggy-> :D
[16:10] <Ziggy-> well why are you passing the light vector to each pixel anyway? :)
[16:10] <Nightshde> and im confused onto what it would interpolate too since the value for ev
[16:10] <Nightshde> per pixel lighting, doing the normalization of the light and normal in th
[16:11] <Ziggy-> you dont have a normal map?
[16:11] <Ziggy-> ;)
[16:11] <Nightshde> not yet no
[16:11] <Ziggy-> better get to it then eh? :)
[16:11] <Nightshde> but it does produce better results
[16:12] <Nightshde> even for diffuse lighting on lower res models
[16:12] <Nightshde> normalizing the normal in the pixel shader
[16:12] <Ziggy-> thats just going to get you diffuse lighting tho
[16:12] <Ziggy-> :P
[16:12] <Nightshde> thats all im after right now
[16:13] <Nightshde> but what i'd like to know is why i get diff results when normalizing the
[16:13] <Nightshde> when both should always be the same
[16:13] <Ziggy-> well its probably interpolating between each vertex :)
[16:13] <Nightshde> How so
[16:13] <Nightshde> does it just interpolate the values between each vertex? if so, how can i
[16:14] <Nightshde> er doesnt it
[16:14] <Ziggy-> i'm not sure what it would do :)
[16:14] <Ziggy-> i know it wouldnt be a good thing tho
[16:14] <Nightshde> well the results are alot better when sending it from Globals->VS->
[16:16] * Nightshde goes insane trying to figure this out.
[16:17] <Ziggy-> Today's Earnings: $0.12
[16:17] <Ziggy-> woot
[16:17] <Nightshde> doh
[16:18] <Nightshde> i think the book Learning vertex and pixel shaders sucks as an intro book
[16:18] <Nightshde> its the one im reading right now and im having to rely on the DirectX doc
[16:18] <Nightshde> tis sad
[16:18] <Ziggy-> :P
[16:19] <Ziggy-> theres not much good info out there on HLSL
[16:19] <Ziggy-> just lots of samples
[16:19] <Ziggy-> its a nice way to clear out the noobs tho
[16:19] <Ziggy-> lol
[16:19] <Nightshde> lol, u suk
[16:19] <Nightshde> hehe
[16:19] <Ziggy-> :P
[16:20] <Nightshde> yeah its been around for awhile, im suprised theres not much info on it
[16:20] <Ziggy-> guess they expect you to pick it up and run with it :)
[16:20] <Ziggy-> if you're math savvy then its easy
[16:20] <Nightshde> all this book says is data sent from the BS to PS is interpolated... simp
[16:20] <Ziggy-> if not you're in trouble
[16:20] <Nightshde> VS even
[16:20] <Ziggy-> i like the BS better :)
[16:21] <Ziggy-> i dont see why the light vector would change :)
[16:21] <Nightshde> i dont know if it changes but it seems it does since i get diff results
[16:22] <Ziggy-> maybe its due to something silly
[16:22] <Ziggy-> :D
[16:22] <Nightshde> in theory you think it would the same regardless
[16:22] <Ziggy-> dunno
[16:22] <Ziggy-> per pixel lighting should be done in texture space tho
[16:23] <Ziggy-> with normal maps n stuff :)
[16:23] <Nightshde> well you would still have the diffuse properties even with a normal map
[16:23] <Nightshde> er would you want it?
[16:23] <Nightshde> eek, dog attacking me
[16:24] <Ziggy-> you would have multiple textures :)
[16:25] <Nightshde> well see at work our target platform is barely SM1.0, so i can see alot o
[16:25] <Nightshde> lambert style
[16:25] <Ziggy-> :X
[16:25] <Nightshde> unfortunately im the only one at work that knows anything about shaders a
[16:25] <Ziggy-> SM1.0 is crude :)
[16:26] <Ziggy-> i get to using 3.0 and find it hard to go back :)
[16:26] <Nightshde> i dont even get to use effect files
[16:26] <Nightshde> using Gamebryo's NSF files
[16:27] <Ziggy-> hrm
[16:27] <Ziggy-> you can compile effect files and load them as shaders tho eh?
[16:27] <Nightshde> not with directx8.1
[16:27] <Ziggy-> :/
[16:27] <Ziggy-> well the output of an effect is just code bytes :)
[16:28] <Ziggy-> guess it would be hacky
[16:29] <Ziggy-> i'm pretty sure you can compile an effect into its vs and ps assemblies
[16:29] <Nightshde> yep, using HLSL in FX Composer to create assembly
[16:29] <Ziggy-> i think its a command line thingy
[16:30] <Nightshde> fxc or something like that
[16:30] <Ziggy-> i may be wrong tho its been a while since i did that stuff :)
[16:30] <Nightshde> what happened to effectedit
[16:30] <Nightshde> never used it but someone was talkin about it
[16:30] <Ziggy-> dunno
[16:30] <Ziggy-> its still around :)
[16:30] <aav> yeah fxc, and you specify the function you want it to compile as a shader
[16:31] <aav> hallo
[16:31] <Ziggy-> :D
[16:31] <Nightshde> yeah aav should have the answere to my annoying question
[16:31] <Nightshde> yay even
[16:31] <Ziggy-> HI AAVNESS
[16:32] <aav> Nightshde, are you making sure the light vector is normalized in the VS?
[16:32] <Nightshde> aav, normalizing it in the PS
[16:32] <Ziggy-> :P
[16:33] <Ziggy-> no need to normalize it a thousand times :)
[16:33] <aav> cause if you send one where the light vec on one vertex is 54 long, and the oth
[16:33] <Nightshde> whats the interpolate tho
[16:33] <Nightshde> since the lightvec is a fixed vector for all verts
[16:33] <Nightshde> whats to even
[16:34] <aav> depends on whether you use a local or infinite viewer
[16:34] <aav> but ok if its fixed
[16:34] <Nightshde> not sure what that means
[16:34] <Ziggy-> (something to do with shadows i think)
[16:34] <Ziggy-> :)
[16:35] <aav> well first of all, why isnt the light vector just passed in as a constant?
[16:35] <aav> if its constant
[16:35] <Nightshde> basically passing the const lightvec in through the VS to PS... the light
[16:35] <Ziggy-> he's just screwin around with it :)
[16:35] <Nightshde> yeah, testing stuff... was optimizing and noticed i got diff results
[16:35] <aav> hm it shouldnt get brighter
[16:35] <Ziggy-> i wonder if it needs like vec*2-1 or smth
[16:36] <Ziggy-> :P
[16:36] <Nightshde> maybe its just FX Composer.... i noticed i also had to use the negative o
[16:36] <Nightshde> for it to work properly
[16:36] <aav> negative?
[16:36] <Nightshde> -LightVec
[16:37] <aav> well in e.g. "N dot L" lighting, the light vector L should be Lpos-Vertexpos
[16:37] <aav> maybe you had it the other way around
[16:38] <Nightshde> hmmm... im just going off this example in the book
[16:38] <Nightshde> they do saturate( dot( Light, Norm ) )
[16:38] <aav> yes
[16:38] <Nightshde> and L = global constant
[16:38] <aav> but Light should be Lpos-Vpos, not Vpos-Lpos
[16:39] <aav> since you had to add the negation, thats probably what got wrong
[16:39] <Ziggy-> i think he's using directional lighting tho :P
[16:39] <Nightshde> still at the basics, so yes directional light
[16:39] <aav> well same thing
[16:39] <Ziggy-> kinda :)
[16:40] <Ziggy-> a directional light doesnt have a position :)
[16:40] <Nightshde> wonder why this book doesnt say anything about doing Lpos-VertexPos
[16:40] <aav> Ziggy-, right but the question then is does L point towards or from the light?
[16:40] <Ziggy-> word
[16:40] <aav> nights, there wouldnt be an Lpos since youre doing directional
[16:41] <aav> er
[16:41] <Ziggy-> so having the light face the opposite of what you're thinking it should face
[16:41] <aav> not nights, Nightshde
[16:42] <Ziggy-> since (0,1,0) dot (0,1,0) = 1 or full bright
[16:42] <Ziggy-> so the light will face away from the object
[16:43] <Nightshde> what got me doing this test was wondering why he was passing a global con
[16:44] <Nightshde> so i tried changing it so that it doesnt and the PS just uses the global
[16:44] <Nightshde> and boom, diff results hehe
[16:44] <Ziggy-> sounds like he was just pokin around
[16:44] <Ziggy-> ;)
[16:44] <Ziggy-> either that or he is doing N dot L and you missed something
[16:44] <Ziggy-> :P
[16:46] <Nightshde> in the code he has: Out.Light = vecLightDir; and vecLightdir = global co
[16:46] <Nightshde> very bizarre... frustates me not knowing the answere lol
[16:46] <Ziggy-> i dont see a point to it :)
[16:47] <Nightshde> well it seems to get a better diffuse lighting model i have to pass a glo
[16:47] <Nightshde> and if thats the case... i need to know why to accept that fact
[16:47] <Nightshde> :)
[16:48] <Ziggy-> try rendering the light as the color
[16:48] <Nightshde> hmm... good idea
[16:48] <Nightshde> now in theory i should see the same color along the whole surface, correc
[16:49] <Nightshde> regardless of how im getting lightvec
[16:50] <Nightshde> i'll have to try it in the morning at work... dont have anything on this
[16:50] <Ziggy-> np
[16:51] * Nightshde closes the book for the night entitled Ziggy-/aav.
[16:54] <Ziggy-> ;)
[16:55] <Nightshde> aight i'll be back tomorrow for more Harassment
[16:55] <Nightshde> :)
[16:55] <Ziggy-> :D
[16:55] <Nightshde> gunna spend some time with the wife
[16:55] <Ziggy-> :O
[16:55] <Nightshde> on a side note... ziggy you in the US?
[16:55] <Ziggy-> u stay away from my wife
[16:55] <Ziggy-> :)
[16:55] <Ziggy-> yes
[16:55] <Ziggy-> you in .PA?
[16:55] <Ziggy-> ;)
[16:55] <Nightshde> im guessing you live in the eastcoast
[16:55] <Nightshde> yeah, unfortunately
[16:56] <Ziggy-> i live in baton rouge
[16:56] <Ziggy-> :P
[16:56] <Nightshde> ah okay, i live in amish paradise, lancaster, PA
[16:56] <Nightshde> hot diggity
[16:56] <Ziggy-> lol
[16:56] <Ziggy-> that would suck
[16:56] <Nightshde> it does
[16:56] <Ziggy-> :)
[16:57] <Nightshde> work in exton, pa about an hour away
[16:57] <Nightshde> its miserable here
[16:57] <Ziggy-> BR is a nice college town
[16:57] <Ziggy-> lots of hot chicks
[16:57] <Nightshde> moved here from Bay area, ca
[16:57] <Nightshde> worst move ever
[16:57] <Ziggy-> lol
[16:57] <Ziggy-> i like it here :)
[16:57] <Nightshde> oh well, atleast im working in the programming field now
[16:57] <Ziggy-> what kinda coding you do?
[16:57] <Nightshde> used to live in chico, ca... HUGE college town
[16:58] <Nightshde> C++ mostly
[16:58] <Ziggy-> word
[16:58] <Nightshde> we license the gamebryo game engine for work
[16:58] <Nightshde> and miles
[16:58] <Ziggy-> :D
[16:58] <Nightshde> but we use it on DX 8.1, gag
[16:58] <Ziggy-> :X
[16:58] <Nightshde> pisses me off, lol
[16:59] <Nightshde> what a waste....
[16:59] <Ziggy-> word
[16:59] <SSilver> woooord
[16:59] <Ziggy-> i just do silly stuff for banks :P
[17:00] <Ziggy-> i almost had a gamedev job last week :)
[17:00] <Ziggy-> but i told my boss i was going to quit
[17:00] <Ziggy-> so they gave me a 10K raise so i would stay :/
[17:03] <Ziggy-> damn parallax occlusion mapping is the shit
[17:03] <Ziggy-> :P
[17:03] <Ziggy-> i just keep looking at this crap
[17:03] <Nightshde> lol
[17:03] <Nightshde> we have an ad on gamedev right now
[17:03] <Nightshde> gamedev.net
[17:03] <Ziggy-> :D
[17:03] <Nightshde> hiring a programmer... heh... like entry level...
[17:03] <Ziggy-> :X
[17:03] <Nightshde> everyone sux that we've interviewed
[17:04] <Nightshde> not saying im any good... hells i barely know much about matrix... My Mat
[17:04] <Nightshde> matrices even
[17:04] <Ziggy-> well what do you expect for an entry level position :)
[17:04] <Ziggy-> most good coders already have good jobs
[17:04] <Ziggy-> :P
[17:04] <Nightshde> 10k a year raise... thats pretty nice
[17:04] <Ziggy-> yea
[17:05] <Nightshde> i got a 3k raise after 6 months of working here
[17:05] <Ziggy-> plus 4% in january
[17:05] <Ziggy-> :)
[17:05] <Nightshde> and i thought that was nice... week
[17:05] <Nightshde> very cool
[17:05] <Ziggy-> lol
[17:05] <Ziggy-> i get about 10K in bonus a year also
[17:05] <Ziggy-> :P
[17:05] <Nightshde> my pomeranian puppy is humping my wife
[17:05] <Nightshde> hahahahahaha
[17:05] <Ziggy-> lol
[17:07] <Nightshde> I get to convert our pipeline over to the shader system... sucky part is,
[17:07] <Ziggy-> http://www.ziggyware.com/ZiggywareImages/parallaxok.jpg
[17:07] <Nightshde> not much time to figure this out either... totally sux
[17:07] <Nightshde> very nice
[17:07] <Ziggy-> :D
[17:07] <Ziggy-> its the dx sample shader
[17:07] <Ziggy-> but i'm using XNA
[17:07] <Ziggy-> :D
[17:08] <Ziggy-> its only 2 triangles per side
[17:08] <Nightshde> writing tutorials i see
[17:08] <Ziggy-> looks like it has hundreds of polys :)
[17:08] <Ziggy-> trying to
[17:08] <Ziggy-> i dont have much time to spend on it
[17:08] <Ziggy-> not without getting yelled at by teh wife :)
[17:09] <Nightshde> i hear ya
[17:09] <Ziggy-> at least i have UFC to look forward to
[17:09] <Ziggy-> :)
[17:09] <Ziggy-> 25 hours and counting..
[17:09] <Ziggy-> ;)
[17:10] <Ziggy-> well i better go before i get yelled at
[17:10] <Ziggy-> later Nightshde
[17:10] <Nightshde> lol
[17:10] <Nightshde> aight laters
[17:10] <Nightshde> thanks again
[17:15] * Nightshde heads off to be with the wiff, lata..
[17:54] <shea> dunnadunnadunnadunnadunnadunnadunnadunnadunnadunnadunnadunna
[17:54] <ht7z> idd, i feel the same way!
[17:55] <shea> coo
[18:01] * DDustin is bored
[18:02] <shea> fix it
[18:04] <DDustin> ya how do i do that? =\
[18:15] <Ad4mm> yeah but this ziggy guy
[18:15] <Ad4mm> nevermade anything useful
[18:15] <Ad4mm> like he's never been accredited to any games
[18:31] <Ultyma> lawl
[18:33] <Ziggy-> lol
[18:34] <Ad4mm> what gun does everyone have
[18:46] <shea> Ad4mm is adumm
[18:52] <Ghaleon> Ad4mm is Adumb?
[18:52] <Ghaleon> I have a desert eagle .50
[18:52] <Ad4mm> newbelon ?
[18:53] * NosTek is now known as NosOff
[18:54] <Ad4mm> http://radio.powernet.bg:8006/
[19:05] <shea> what up ghal
[19:13] <Ghaleon> disgaea 2 in da hizouse
[19:30] <shea> Poisoned pigeons began nose-diving into pavement and dying on downtown sidewal
[19:30] <shea> Authorities cleaned up more than 25 sick or dead birds that apparently had eat
[19:30] <shea> "The death of these pigeons was more than an unfortunate accident," local Capi
[19:30] <shea> McMillen said the bank hired an exterminator to handle its pigeon problem afte
[19:34] <Rangar> so, in English..
[19:35] <Rangar> "It was not our intention that the poison would in any way harm the birds"
[19:36] <shea> yeah something
[19:36] <Ultyma> lol
[19:36] <Ultyma> http://sadbird.ytmnd.com
[19:37] <Rangar> so is the bank going to get prosecuted for it?
[19:37] <Rangar> over here they would
[19:37] <Rangar> pigeons are protected here
[19:38] <slz> in the usa you are allowed to committ a lot of different crimes as long as the
[19:39] <slz> unless the media picks up on it
[19:39] <Ultyma> lol
[19:39] <slz> then you'll be hung out to dry
[19:39] <Ultyma> omg360wtfpwned
[19:44] <nights> aav here?
[19:44] <nights> damn. this is hideous
[19:46] <Ultyma> omgitsnights
[19:47] <nights> would drawing a sprite in two passes, once with "one" as alpha mode and one
[20:06] <moebius> http://sadbird.ytmnd.com
[20:06] <moebius> er
[20:08] <moebius> http://gifdepot.com/albums/Animals/SadRoo.gif
[20:09] <Ultyma> lol
[20:13] <Ultyma> i wish that gif was longer
[20:14] <Ultyma> with the roo like, lookin down then bowing his head
[20:31] <Rangar> http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/13/teacher.sex.ap/index.html
[20:31] <Rangar> damn, what a hot bird
[20:32] <Rangar> shame she's got such a mark on her life now
[20:32] <Scrat64> go be her daddy
[20:33] <Rangar> hahaha
[20:33] <Rangar> sugar daddy ya think?
[20:33] <Scrat64> ya
[21:51] * BlkStaff is now known as Narris
[22:04] * PcChip out: sleep
[22:34] <Frobozz> So anyone planning on buying Core 2 Quadro >_>
[22:34] <Frobozz> http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/09/10/four_cores_on_the_rampage/
[22:36] <slz> yeah, i want 2
[22:36] <Frobozz> hehe - eight cores would be nice :)
[22:36] <stat1c> 32 is better
[22:37] <Frobozz> hrm - don't expect to see 32 until 8- or 16-core processors come out
[22:37] <Frobozz> Which at this pace seems to be within the next two years
[22:37] <Frobozz> Which will be about the time BluRay hits $50 per drive
[22:38] <jenova0> ibm cell desktop would be l33t
[22:38] <Frobozz> funny but back when cell was announced it sounded great - now that quad cor
[22:39] <stat1c> you cant really compare the two
[22:39] <jenova0> agreed
[22:39] <stat1c> the broadband engine tackles a different applicatin
[22:39] <jenova0> spe's are specialized simd unites
[22:39] <jenova0> units
[22:39] <Frobozz> yes I suppose - which is probably why desktops won't use it
[22:39] <jenova0> basically providing enourmous geometry througput
[22:40] <jenova0> Frobozz: however, the ppe is no slouch
[22:40] <jenova0> the MHz is not great tho, good for ppc, but not great
[22:41] <jenova0> or GHz i should say
[22:41] <Frobozz> So essentially the Cell is good for multimedia but not much else?
[22:41] <jenova0> correct, however, the ppc chip inside is still good
[22:41] <stat1c> frobozz: stream FLOP applications
[22:41] <jenova0> basically a top end G4, low-end G5
[22:42] <jenova0> if it had twin G5s it would be very l33t
[22:42] <stat1c> hah yeah
[22:42] <Frobozz> Could just have two Cells :P
[22:42] <jenova0> technically you can
[22:42] <stat1c> there are having enough yield problems
[22:42] <jenova0> but $$$
[22:42] <stat1c> no need to throw in more complications :P
[22:43] <jenova0> basically it's ps2 style with 7 instead of 2 vpu's
[22:43] <stat1c> the bus interconnect between the units is much different though
[22:43] <jenova0> true
[22:43] <jenova0> they really need to design a good graphics api that can utilize all 7 spes
[22:43] <stat1c> and they will no doubt
[22:44] <stat1c> they wouldnt poor so much money into hardware architecture, only to throw it
[22:44] <jenova0> agreed.
[22:45] <jenova0> and they need a better dev environment than ps2. ps2 was horrible
[22:45] <stat1c> it will get better and better over time im sure
[22:45] <Frobozz> stat1c: Yeah hopefully they've learned not to do that by now ^_^
[22:45] <stat1c> never programmed the ps2
[22:45] <jenova0> i did mostly homebrew stuff. but from what i got to see, the tools were bad
[22:46] <jenova0> if they had something like visual studio or eclipse, that would make a worl
[22:46] <stat1c> yeah well looking at the PS2 NOW its not that complicated to optimize i dont
[22:46] <stat1c> however, when it was first instroduced it probably head programmers heads sp
[22:46] <jenova0> its a different way of thinking
[22:46] <stat1c> how would visual studio or eclipse help?
[22:46] <jenova0> especially coming from a win32/ogl world
[22:46] <Frobozz> jenova0: Or XNA :P
[22:47] <jenova0> stat1c: i think a proper debugger would be huge. printf sux as a debugger
[22:47] <jenova0> well, sux is harsh. just 10x slower
[22:47] <stat1c> jenova0: do you think that is just a fault with homebrew, the pro tools prob
[22:47] <stat1c> actually, i think you can link gdb
[22:48] <stat1c> through serial I/O on the ps2
[22:49] <jenova0> yeah, i've never seen anyone getting it working well
[22:49] <jenova0> could've have been partial homebrew, but i know a lot of certified develope
[22:50] <stat1c> i dont believe professionals debugged using printf
[22:50] <jenova0> i hope not
[22:50] <stat1c> i've done it for small programs, but for a full blown game it would take for
[22:50] <jenova0> yeap
[22:51] <jenova0> vis. studio is the top of the line when it comes to debuggers, imo
[22:51] <stat1c> i mean, one persons change whacks out the whole game, where do you start wit
[22:51] <jenova0> lol. that would be funny
[22:51] <Frobozz> could just put printfs in the game to begin with and have the preprocessor
[22:54] <Dr^Nick> hahaha
[22:55] <Dr^Nick> if you're using printf's you probably didnt test the code before you used i
[22:55] <jenova0> true
[22:55] <Frobozz> What's wrong with using printfs? >_<
[22:56] <stat1c> well you dont have access to the machine for starters :P
[22:56] <stat1c> ie) registers, memory map, instruction stream
[22:57] <Dr^Nick> Frobozz - nothing I suppose, but dont rely on them to debug
[22:57] <stat1c> a good system level debugger is always handy
[22:58] <jenova0> yes, like vis studio
[22:59] <stat1c> jenova0: do you work for ms, you are really pumping that debug environment u
[22:59] <stat1c> its........... okay.
[23:00] <stat1c> actually i havent used it in a while
[23:00] <stat1c> just because i havent coded in a while
[23:00] <jenova0> stat1c: no, ibm
[23:00] <jenova0> but i like the tool
[23:00] <stat1c> you work for ibm in toronto?
[23:01] <jenova0> markham
[23:01] <stat1c> ahh okay
[23:01] <stat1c> i met people from there on the business express from finch station
[23:01] <jenova0> yeah, i don't do any coding there (yet). just helpdesk
[23:02] <stat1c> i see
[23:02] <stat1c> i worked for ati
[23:02] <stat1c> in markham
[23:02] <stat1c> doing hardware design, now im back in school starting my phd :P
[23:02] <jenova0> ahh, cool
[23:03] <stat1c> you gonna work on getting a software dev job ?
[23:03] <jenova0> that's the hope, but they do most of that stuff in austin
[23:03] <jenova0> well, chip stuff anyway
[23:03] <stat1c> i thought markham was a big software dev house
[23:03] <stat1c> for dbase stuff
[23:04] <stat1c> what do they mostly do in markham?
[23:04] <jenova0> maybe, mostly helpdesk from what i've seen, and admin stuff like accounting
[23:04] <jenova0> they closed the other office in north york, moatfield (york mills & don mil
[23:04] <jenova0> i used to work at that one
[23:04] <stat1c> oh they closed it
[23:04] <stat1c> i didnt know that
[23:04] <stat1c> so do they just have the 1 now?
[23:05] <jenova0> they have a few in markham
[23:05] <stat1c> oh
[23:05] <jenova0> one on 14th ave, but that's hardware factory or something
[23:05] <stat1c> they have that huge black thing with the underground parking
[23:05] <jenova0> then 2 on steeles in markham, 3500 & 3600
[23:05] <jenova0> that's the 14th ave one
[23:05] <stat1c> it is?
[23:06] <stat1c> i dont think i've ever driven out to 14th
[23:06] <stat1c> i think this one was steels smoewhere
[23:06] <jenova0> unless it's steeles, where you go underground right from steeles
[23:06] <stat1c> yes
[23:06] <jenova0> yeah, that's the one i'm at
[23:06] <stat1c> underground right off the road
[23:06] <stat1c> your at steeles ?
[23:06] <jenova0> yeap
[23:06] <jenova0> but i work from home
[23:06] <stat1c> thats not really markham is it ?
[23:06] <jenova0> yeap, steeles is the border
[23:06] <stat1c> oh
[23:06] <stat1c> isnt there one on highway 7?
[23:07] <jenova0> never heard of that one
[23:07] <stat1c> hmm
[23:07] * stat1c checks
[23:08] <stat1c> [02:06am] <stat1c> oh
[23:08] <stat1c> [02:06am] <jenova0> one on 14th ave, but that's hardware factory or so
[23:08] <stat1c> [02:06am] <stat1c> they have that huge black thing with the undergroun
[23:08] <stat1c> [02:06am] <jenova0> then 2 on steeles in markham, 3500 & 3600
[23:08] <stat1c> [02:06am] <jenova0> that's the 14th ave one
[23:08] <stat1c> [02:06am] <stat1c> it is?
[23:08] <stat1c> [02:06am] <stat1c> i dont think i've ever driven out to 14th
[23:08] <jenova0> 100 gough road?
[23:08] <stat1c> The lab is just off Warden Ave between Highway 407 and Highway 7 in Markham.
[23:08] <stat1c> is gough off warden?
[23:08] * stat1c checks
[23:08] <jenova0> there are also a bunch on consumer's rd. by vic. park & sheppard
[23:09] <jenova0> we also have some mobility centers, but i've never been
[23:10] <jenova0> i'd only want to work for ibm, ati, m$ or sony personally
[23:11] <stat1c> hmm
[23:11] <stat1c> i'd work anywhere in the valley
[23:11] <jenova0> sony would be my first choice
[23:11] <jenova0> or square sorry. :)
[23:11] <stat1c> hah squaresoft would be absolutely sick
[23:11] <stat1c> i found the warden ibm
[23:11] <stat1c> its labelled on google maps
[23:11] <stat1c> "IBM Canada"
[23:11] <jenova0> yeah, there office in japan is so wicked.
[23:12] <stat1c> warden, between 407 and highway 7
[23:12] <jenova0> their
[23:12] <stat1c> its on yorktech rd.
[23:12] <jenova0> sounds like 3600
[23:12] <stat1c> its listed as a development lab
[23:13] <jenova0> ah ok. i was looking through the sites listed in our print site
[23:13] <jenova0> how we map printers
[23:13] <jenova0> yeah, i think i've heard of that place.
[23:14] <jenova0> helpdesk sux, but i dont take calls
[23:14] <jenova0> so that is ok
[23:15] <stat1c> i guess so
[23:15] <jenova0> i'd rather be coding. but i still have a lot to learn before i do that full
[23:15] <stat1c> whats your education background?
[23:16] <jenova0> flunked out of honours, comp sci at waterloo
[23:16] <jenova0> not much
[23:17] <stat1c> heh go back
[23:17] <jenova0> haha. not when you talk about a school like waterllo
[23:17] <jenova0> waterloo
[23:18] <Dr^Nick> waterloo is pretty good
[23:18] <stat1c> whats wrong with waterloo?
[23:18] <Dr^Nick> its one of the top CS schools in North America...
[23:18] <jenova0> pretty good
[23:18] <Dr^Nick> Second to U of A :p
[23:18] <jenova0> top cs school in canada
[23:18] <Dr^Nick> nah, they lost that title a few years back to u of a
[23:19] <jenova0> oh
[23:19] <jenova0> but yeah, is top notch
[23:19] <Dr^Nick> yeah. very high quality.
[23:19] <stat1c> u of t owns all :P
[23:19] <Dr^Nick> meh, u of a > *
[23:19] <stat1c> i ncs
[23:19] <stat1c> in cs
[23:19] <jenova0> that was my 2nd choice
[23:19] <jenova0> i may go there
[23:20] <Dr^Nick> So, as far as I'm aware, candian rankings for CS go U of A, Waterloo, U of
[23:20] <stat1c> a lot of u of a students go to u of t for grad school
[23:20] <jenova0> queens is high, not for cs tho
[23:20] <Dr^Nick> yeah
[23:20] <stat1c> ubc?
[23:20] <Dr^Nick> queens and mcgill..
[23:20] <jenova0> guelph has a good cs school
[23:20] <Dr^Nick> stat1c - nah, ubc isnt great.
[23:20] <stat1c> hmmm didnt know that
[23:20] <Dr^Nick> mmm guelph has issues too
[23:21] <Dr^Nick> UBC is popular simply due to the imports from overseas.
[23:21] <jenova0> western for business, one of the best by far
[23:21] <jenova0> my sis went there
[23:21] <Dr^Nick> yeah, Ive heard that.
[23:21] <jenova0> big party town too. ;)
[23:21] <jenova0> school is huge tho, 28,000 people or so
[23:22] <jenova0> Dr^Nick: what issues does gueplh have?
[23:22] <jenova0> other than being in the middle of nowhere
[23:23] <Dr^Nick> Well, they took a certain prof that got pushed out from here...
[23:23] <Dr^Nick> so if they're taking our flunkees, they're not too hot.
[23:23] <Dr^Nick> or sorry, he wasn't a prof, he was a lecturer.
[23:23] <jenova0> ahh ok.
[23:24] <jenova0> my cousin when there for bio-chem, was just curious
[23:24] <jenova0> when/went
[23:24] <jenova0> i guess he'd still be there now, probably 3rd or 4th year
[23:25] <Dr^Nick> cool
[23:25] <Dr^Nick> So, I donno maybe guelph is really good
[23:25] <Dr^Nick> but in my mind its tainted :D
[23:26] <jenova0> heh. really depends on programs.
[23:26] <jenova0> for instance, waterloo has the only optometry school in canada
[23:26] <jenova0> while, u of t has probably the best pre-med programs
[23:28] <Dr^Nick> yeah
[23:28] <Dr^Nick> though, pre-med doesn't actually exist
[23:28] <jenova0> oh?
[23:29] <Dr^Nick> nope. anyone who tells you they're in pre-med/pre-law.. has applied and fai
[23:30] <Dr^Nick> My brother grad'd med school a few years back. he never did "pre-med" :P he
[23:30] <Dr^Nick> so.. maybe thats different out east/in the states.. but here it just what t
[23:31] <jenova0> ahh, cool.
[23:32] <jenova0> i could never be a med student, while i'm interested in physical and psycho
[23:32] * Dr_Rambo grabs Dr Nick from behind and munch into his brain
[23:32] <Dr_Rambo> BRAINNNNNNNN HMMMMM
[23:33] <jenova0> sociology would be more interesting to me
[23:33] <Dr^Nick> hrm.
[23:33] * Dr_Rambo grabs Jenova0 from behind while he is still talking and eat his brain too
[23:33] <Dr_Rambo> slurp slurp
[23:34] * jenova0 has a caveman brain, so Dr_Rambo is still hungry...
[23:34] * Dr_Rambo looks around
[23:34] * Dr_Rambo sees Ultyma sleeping soundly and goes near him
[23:35] * Dr_Rambo puts chilli sauce on Ultyma's brain
[23:35] <Dr_Rambo> hmmmm chilli sauced brainnn
[23:41] <Scorpmoon> u game?
[23:42] * Dr_Rambo grabs Scorpmoon from behind and munch into his brain
[23:43] <Scorpmoon> my brain is on the front
[23:43] <Dr_Rambo> slurp slurp
[23:44] <Scorpmoon> yaaaay
[23:44] <Scorpmoon> sucky sucky
[23:54] <Ghaleon> Dr^Nick: pre-med is what you study before med here... it's required
[23:54] <Ghaleon> it's like the basic shared stuff you take before specializing
[23:54] <Ghaleon> dunno about pre-law
[23:55] <Dr_Rambo> it's like pre-school
[23:55] <Ghaleon> Dr_Rambo.spreadzLiez() returned werd
[23:55] <jenova0> is pre-law even required
[23:56] <Ghaleon> I've never heard of pre-law
[23:56] <jenova0> i mean if you can pass the exams, who cares?
[23:56] <Dr_Rambo> they prime you up like a raw meat dip in BBQ sauce, then u become BBQ meat
[23:56] <Dr_Rambo> yuum yuum
[23:56] * Dr_Rambo grabs Ghaleon from behind and munch into his brain
[23:56] <Dr_Rambo> hmmm Ghaleon brain no taste
[23:56] * Dr_Rambo puts some chilli sauce on it
[23:56] * Ghaleon 's brain is made of arsenic
[23:57] <Ghaleon> * Dr_Rambo falls over dead
[23:57] * Dr_Rambo is a zombie so he doesn't care
[23:57] <Dr_Rambo> slurp slurp
[23:58] <kozmonaut> newpz
[23:58] <Ghaleon> zombies are supposed to be undead
[23:58] <Ghaleon> if u killz a zombie it are deader
[23:59] <kermit__> Ghaleonz
[23:59] * kozmonaut is a lvl 39 lich alchemist
[23:59] <Ghaleon> frawgery
[23:59] * Dr_Rambo have finish Ghaleon's brain so he is now Rambo's Posse'
Session Close: Thu Sep 14 00:00:00 2006